중국이 오랫동안 준비해온 최첨단 스텔스 전투기 J-20를 대중에 처음으로 공개 했다. 

레이다에 잡히지 않는 두대의 스텔스 제트기가 약 60초 동안 주하이 에어쇼(광동성)에 등장했다.  

주하이 에어쇼는 항공기 제조사와 바이어가 모이는 중국 최대의 에어쇼이다. 

지금까지 중국이 제조한 스텔스기는 블로그를 통해서만 간혹 공개 되었다. 이번에 공개된 스텔스 전투기 들은 현대화되고 첨단으로 업그레이드된 중국 군사력을 보여주는 '베이징의 바램'이라고 서방언론들은 표현했다.  

시진핑 주석은 중국군이 보다 강력해지고 남중국과 동중국해에서 강력한 군사적 지위를 확보하고자 하는 야심을 숨김없이 보이고 있다고 서방언론들은 전했다.

스텔스 전투기 J-20는 중국 항공산업기업의 자회사인 청두 항공산업그룹에서 개발 제조되었다.  

몇몇 군사전문가들은 J-20  신형 스텔스기를 록히드 마틴의 F-22 랩터와 비교하기도 한다. 주간항공의 브래들리는'중국의 항공 전투 역량이 명백하게 진일보 하게 됬다' 고 평가 했다. 

에어쇼 차이나는 '중국 국제 우주 항공박람회'의 약칭이며 세계에서 가장 큰 전시회 중의 하나로 급 부상했다. 

중국은 향후 십년동안 세계에서 가장 큰 항공시장이 될 것이며, 에어쇼 차이나는 민간 분야 뿐만아니라 공군에서도 중국의 야심을 대내외적으로 보여줄 좋은 전시회이다.

[출처 : 비비씨 뉴스]

스텔스 전투기 뿐만아니라 초대형 제트 수송기 Y-20도 공개 되었으며, 중국 근해를 순시할 목적으로 개발된 AG-600 해상 비행기도 공개 되었다.  

에어쇼 차이나의 남은 기간동안 H-6K 폭격기와 새로운 'Changhe Z-10K  공격용 헬리콥터'의 공개가 예상된다.  

미국 언론에 따르면 트럼프와 힐러리가 3차 대선 토론을 치르고 뉴욕에서 열린 자선 디너쇼인 알프레드 스미스 체러티 디너(Alfred Smith charity dinner)에 참석했다. 대통령 선거 전에 마지막으로 두 후보가 동시에 참여하여 발언하는 행사이다.   

알프레드 디너 뉴욕 자선행사는 전통적으로 미국 대통령 선거가 있는 해에 열린다.  대통령 선거를 치르는 양당 후보가 칼을 내려놓고 잠시 상호 비방을 중단하는 경향이 있어왔다. 미국 대통령 선거 양당 후보의 3차에 걸친 대선 토론회의 본선이 끝난 후 '갈라쇼'인 셈이다. 

미국 언론들은 트럼프가 힐러리 보다 상대적으로 더 유머러스하고 지난 세번의 대선토론 때보다 선방했다고 보도 하면서도 트럼프의 역전을 경계하는 말들을 쏟아 내었다.  

블로거는 트럼프와 힐러리의 대선 토론회의 연장선 상에서 정치적인 공방보다 미국 민주주의의 한 전통을 지켜보는 것에 더 관점을 두고 이야기할까 한다. 

양당 후보 모두 '자기비난(self-deprecating)'을 하는 기법으로 유머를 구사하는 것으로 말문을 열었다.  잠깐 '자기비난 유머'가 무엇인지 살펴보자.  당하는 사람은 상처받을 수도 있지만 다른 사람을 우스꽝스럽게 비꼬는 것으로 희화화하는 유머가 재미있고 지어내기 쉽다. 그런데 타인에게 상처주지 않고 유머를 구사하려면 자기 자신을 희화화하라는 이야기가 있다. 데일 카네기 등 미국의 인간관계와 성공학에 대한 역사적인 저자들도 공통적으로 언급하여 미국 사회에는 잘 알려진 이야기다.  겉으로라도 상대를 배려하는 것을 존중하는 미국식 유머코드라고 할 수 있다.  힐러리와 트럼프는 이번 연설에서 상호 비방을 멈추는 전통과 달리 상대방에 대한 핵심적인 비난을  빠트리지 않았다. 하지만, 상대에 대한 비난에 앞서 '자기비난'을 언급하며 언론에서 지적된 자신들을 향한 비난을 먼저 소재삼아 웃음을 자아냈다. 

뉴욕 자선 디너의 연설은 치열하고 추악한 비방전으로 치닫은 대통령 선거 기간이 끝날 무렵에 다소 서로에 대한 관용을 보일 수 있는 기회라고 볼 수 있다. 한편으로는 대통령 선거에 패배한 경우를 대비하여 경쟁후보간 상호 여지를 두는 것은 아닐까. 몇가지 폭소 포인트만 간략히 적어본다.   

트럼프는 사람들이 나를 '겸손하다'고 한다며 자기비하(self deprecating) 농담을 시작했다. "그건 사실이고 나의 가장 좋은 자질이다 심지어 내 성깔보다 더 낳다"고 말해서 웃음을 자아냈다. 누가 들어도 사실이 아니라 웃음 밖에 안나올 이야기다.  '겸손(modest)'에 정반대되는 언행들로 언론에 뭇 매를 맞고 내부적으로도 언행을 자제할 것을 압박받는 자신의 모습을 비하하는 농담을 한 것이다. 

'본인을 먼저 비하하는 전통적인 예의'를 차린 다음 트럼프는 본격적으로 힐러리를 비꼬기 시작했다. 본 행사에 들어오기 전에 힐러리와 부딪쳤는데 힐러리가 '미안하다(pardon me)'라고 했다고 하여 청중은 폭소했다. 미국 사람들이 살짝 부딪치면 습관적으로 '파든미'라고 하는 말을 마치 이번 선거판에서 자신을 비방한 것에 대해 모조리 미안하다고 말한 것처럼 표현한 것이다.  힐러리를 고약한 여자(nasty woman)이라고 불렀던 것을 다시 언급하며, 이런 표현은 상대적인 것이라고 다시 한번 악명높은 고약한 언행의 포문을 열었다. 대선 TV토론을 하는 동안 힐러리의 말을 계속 듣다보니 트럼프 자신과 인신공격성 발언으로 앙숙이된 로지 오도넬이 더 좋아질 지경이라고 너스레를 떨었다. 

트럼프는 오늘 행사장에 힐러리의 보좌진이 참 열심히 일한다고 하며, 바로 당신 NBC, CNN 등 미국 주요언론들을 손까락질했다. 지금 초과근무까지 하고 있다고 덧붙였다. 미국 대부분의 미디어가 자신을 지지하지 않고 힐러리를 지지하는 것을 비꼬는 말이다. 이 부분에서 주요언론과 현장 방송관계자들도 웃음을 참기 어려웠을 것이다. 

힐러리는 이번 연설에 오기위해 낮잠시간을 투자해야 했으며, 이런 연설에 돈을 많이 받는 다고 하며 트럼프의 비난을 스스로 다시하여 '자기비하' 농담을 맞 받았다. 트럼프가 이번 뉴욕 알프레드스미스디너에 참석하도록 '영구차'를 보냈다고도 말해 웃음을 자아냈다.   힐러리는 트럼프의 말투를 흉내내는 등 몇번의 유머를 구사하고 행사 중 대체적으로 밝은 미소를 보였다.  

두 후보가 대본을 보면서 이야기했지만, 트럼프는 어프렌티스(apprentice) 등 수년간의 생방송 진행의 경험에서 우러나온 능숙함이 돋보였다. 재치있었고 웃음이 터지는 포인트를 잘 주무르는 모습을 보였다. 재미있었다. 힐러리의 연설은 '재미가 없다', '사전준비가 철저하다'라는 평에 딱 맞아 떨어지는 듯 했다. 연설 대본을 실감나게 읽었지만 유머는 미묘하게 어색했고 미소는 과해 보였다. 

메건 켈리 등 미국 주요 뉴스 진행 앵커들은 당혹스러운 웃음을 보이며 보도했다. 지난 세번의 대선토론보다 뉴욕 디너 모임에서 트럼프가 선전한 것이 분명하다. 

[트럼프 뉴욕 디너쇼 연설 다시보기] 

[힐러리 뉴욕 디너쇼 연설 다시보기] 

관련글 바로가기

미국 대통령 선거 결과 9일 오후나 저녁에... 혹, 트럼프가 당선되면?

[아래는 도널드 트럼프의 알프레드 스미스 자선 디너 영문 연설문 전문임]

Donald, the microphone is yours.

TRUMP: And it’s working. (LAUGHTER)

Thank you Al. Wow. That was good. Mm. This is a helluva dinner. Well I want to thank Your Eminence. This is really great to be with you again. Beloved Governor Cuomo, our great senators. Hi Chuck. He used to love me when I was a Democrat you know.

(LAUGHTER)

Mayor de Blasio. Wherever you are. Where’s Mayor de Blasio? (inaudible) See in the old days I would have know him very well but I haven’t doing so much of the real estate any (ph).

And I want to thank Al and Ann (ph) Smith, just a fantastic job you do with the dinner. Congratulations on a record – over $6 million, right? He’s got a record.

(APPLAUSE)

And a special hello to all of you in this room who have known and loved me for many, many years. It’s true.

The politicians. They’ve had me to their homes, they’ve introduced me to their children, I’ve become their best friends in many instances. They’ve asked for my endorsement and they always wanted my money. And even called me really a dear, dear friend. But then suddenly, decided when I ran for president as a Republican, that I’ve always been a no-good, rotten, disgusting scoundrel. And they totally forgot about me.

But that’s OK. You know, they say when you do this kind of an event you always start out with a self-deprecating joke. Some people think this would be tough for me, but the truth is …

(LAUGHTER)

It’s true — the truth is I’m actually a modest person. Very modest. It’s true. In fact many people tell me that modesty is perhaps my best quality.

(LAUGHTER)

Even better than my temperament.

(LAUGHTER)

You know Cardinal Dolan and I have some things in common. For instance, we both run impressive properties on Fifth Avenue. Of course his is much more impressive than mine. That’s because I built mine with my own beautifully formed hands.

(LAUGHTER)

While his was built with the hands of God, and nobody can compete with God. Is that correct? Nobody. Right?

(APPLAUSE)

That’s right. No contest.

It’s great to be here with a thousand wonderful people, or, as I call it, a small intimate dinner with some friends. Or as Hillary calls it, her largest crowd of the season.

(LAUGHTER)

Ahh, this stuff. This is corny stuff. I do recognize that I come into this event with a little bit of an advantage. I know that so many of you in the archdiocese already have a place in your heart for a guy who started out as a carpenter working for his father. I was a carpenter working for mine.

(LAUGHTER)

True. Not for a long period of time but I was. For about three weeks. What’s great about the Al Smith Dinner is that even in the rough and tumble world of a really, really hard-fought campaign – in fact I don’t know if you know Hillary but last night they said, “That was the most vicious debate in the history of politics, presidential debate. The most vicious.”

And I don’t know – are we supposed to be proud of that or where are we supposed to be on that one. But they did say that and I’m trying to think back to Lincoln. I don’t think we can compete with that. But the candidates have some light-hearted moments together, which is true. I have no doubt that Hillary is going to laugh quite a bit tonight, sometimes even at appropriate moments.

(LAUGHTER)

And even tonight, with all of the heated back and forth, between my opponent and me at the debate last night, we have proven that we can actually be civil to each other. In fact, just before taking the dais, Hillary accidentally bumped into me and she very civilly said, “Pardon me.”

(LAUGHTER)

And I very politely replied, “Let me talk to you about that after I get into office.”

(LAUGHTER)

Just kidding, just kidding. And Hillary was very gracious. She said if somehow she gets elected she wants me to be, without question, either her ambassador to Iraq or to Afghanistan. It’s my choice.

(LAUGHTER)

But one of the things I noticed tonight – and I’ve known Hillary for a long time – this is the first time ever, ever, that Hillary is sitting down and speaking to major corporate leaders and not getting paid for it. (LAUGHTER)

It’s true. It’s true.

You know, last night, I called Hillary a “nasty woman,” but this stuff is all relative. After listening to Hillary rattle on and on and on, I don’t think so badly of Rosie O’Donnell anymore.

(LAUGHTER)

In fact, I’m actually starting to like Rosie a lot.

(LAUGHTER)

These events give not only the candidates a chance to be with each other in a very social setting; it also allows the candidates the opportunity to meet the other candidate’s team — good team.

I know Hillary met my campaign manager, and I got the chance to meet the people who are working so hard to get her elected. There they are — the heads of NBC, CNN, CBS, ABC — there’s the New York Times, right over there, and the Washington Post.

(LAUGHTER)

They’re working overtime. True. True.

(APPLAUSE)

Oh, this one’s going to get me in trouble.

(LAUGHTER)

Not with Hillary. You know, the president told me to stop whining, but I really have to say, the media is even more biased this year than ever before — ever. You want the proof? Michelle Obama gives a speech and everyone loves it — it’s fantastic. They think she’s absolutely great. My wife, Melania, gives the exact same speech —

(LAUGHTER)

— and people get on her case.

(APPLAUSE)

And I don’t get it. I don’t know why.

(APPLAUSE)

And it wasn’t her fault. Stand up, Melania. Come on. She took a lot of abuse.

(APPLAUSE)

Oh, I’m in trouble when I go home tonight. I’m — she didn’t know about that one. Am I okay? Is it okay?

Cardinal, please speak to her.

(LAUGHTER)

I’d like to address an important religious matter: the issue of going to confession. Or, as Hillary calls it, the Fourth of July weekend with FBI Director Comey.

(LAUGHTER)

Now, I’m told Hillary went to confession before tonight’s event, but the priest was having a hard time, when he asked about her sins, and she said she couldn’t remember 39 times.

(LAUGHTER)

Hillary is so corrupt, she got kicked off the Watergate Commission.

(BOOING)

How corrupt do you have to be to get kicked off the Watergate Commission? Pretty corrupt. Hillary is, and has been, in politics since the 70s. What’s her pitch? The economy is busted? The government’s corrupt? Washington is failing? “Vote for me. I’ve been working on these problems for 30 years. I can fix it”, she says.

I wasn’t really sure if Hillary was going to be here tonight, because I guess you didn’t send her invitation by email. Or, maybe, you did and she just found out about it through the wonder of WikiLeaks.

(LAUGHTER)

We’ve learned so much from WikiLeaks. For example, Hillary believes that it’s vital to deceive the people by having one public policy —

(BOOING)

— and a totally different policy in private. That’s okay. I don’t know who they’re angry at Hillary, you or I. For example, here she is tonight, in public, pretending not to hate Catholics.

Now some of you haven’t noticed, Hillary isn’t laughing as much as the rest of us. That’s because she knows the jokes. And all of the jokes were given to her in advance of the dinner by Donna Brazile. Which is – everyone knows, of course, Hillary’s belief that it takes a village, which only makes sense after all in places like Haiti, where she’s taken a number of them.

(BOOING)

Thank you. I don’t know – and I don’t want this evening without saying something nice about my opponent. Hillary has been in Washington a long time. She knows a lot about how government works. And according to her sworn testimony Hillary has forgotten more things than most of us will ever, ever, ever know. That I can tell you.

(BOOING)

We’re having some fun here tonight and that’s good.

On a personal note, what an amazing honor it is to be with all of you. And I want to congratulate Hillary on getting the nomination and we’re in there fighting and over the next 19 days somebody’s going to be chosen. We’ll see what happens. But I have great memories of coming to this dinner with my father over the years when I was a young man. Great experience for me.

This was always a special experience for him and me to be together. One thing we can all agree on is the need to support the great work that comes out of the dinner. Millions of dollars have been raised to support disadvantaged children, and I applaud the many people who have worked to make this wonderful event a critical lifeline for children in need.

(APPLAUSE)

And that we together broke the all-time record tonight is really something special. More than $6 million net, net, net, net. The cardinal told me that’s net net, Donald, remember. We can also agree on the need to stand up to anti-Catholic bias, to defend religious liberty and to create a culture that celebrates life. America is in many ways divided …

(APPLAUSE)

Thank you. America is in many ways divided like it’s never been before. And the great religious leaders here tonight give us all an example that we can follow. We’re living in a time, an age that we never thought possible before. The vicious barbarism we read about in history books, but never thought we’d see it in our so-called modern- day world. Who would have thought we would be witnessing what we’re witnessing today.

We’ve got to be very strong, very, very smart, and we’ve got to come together not only as a nation, but as a world community. Thank you very much, God bless you and God bless America. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

Thank you. Thank you very much.

아래 '공감 하트'를 눌러주시면 

큰힘이 됩니다.

('좋아요'는 가입 안해도 눌러집니다.^^)

힐러리가 52%로 39%를 차지한 트럼프를 이겼다고 CNN은 미국 3차 대선 TV 토론회를 지켜본 시청자를 대상으로 한 여론조사 결과를 즉시 방송했다. 

지난 대선토론중 가장 치열한 접전을 벌인것으로 언론들은 평가했다. 두 후보는 대법관 임명, 수정헌법 2조 총기 문제, 대법관 자격문제, 낙태, 총기 소유, 이민 등의 정책적인 문제에 대해 설전을 벌였다. 

트럼프는 사회자 월리스가 대선 후 다시 미국은 하나가 되어야하는 데, 대선 선거 결과에 승복할 수 있느냐는 질문에 그때 가서 두고 보겠다고 대답했다. 사회자 월리스도 트럼프의 답변에 당황한 듯 같은 질문을 재차 했고 트럼프는 이어서 답변하기를, 이번 대선은 미국 전체 언론들의 선거조작이 있고 힐러리는 불법적으로 수백만명을 선거인단으로 등록했다고 주장했다.  힐러리는 이에대해 소름끼친 다고 하면서 트럼프는 항상 지면 지금처럼 동일한 패턴을 보인다고 꼬집었다. 실제 트럼프가 한 방송국의 시상을 놓쳤을 때 이것은 조작 된 것이라고 독설을 퍼부은 것을 언급했다.  

힐러리는 성추행에 대한 비난도 이어 갔는데 트럼프는 수백만건의 이메일을 누출시킨 점을 1차와 2차 토론에 이어 다시 언급하며 방어에 나섰다. 특히, 과거 아홉명의 여성들을 키스하고 심지어 치맛속을 더듬은 일에 대해서도 힐러리에 의해서 조작된 사실이라고 주장했다. 유명해지고 싶은 여성들을 힐러리측에서 이용한 음모라는 것이다. 전혀 사실이 아니기 때문에 자신의 와이프에게도 사과하지 않았다고 말했다.  

국제 문제에 있어서 한반도 문제는 따로 언급되지 않았지만 '한국'은 여러번 언급됐다. 한국과 일본, 사우디의 핵무장을 옹호하는 것이냐는 힐러리의 비난에 트럼프는 핵무장을 옹호하고 동맹관계를 부인하는 것이 아니라 동맹국 들이 스스로 방어력을 갖추어야 하는 것이라고 다소 누그러진 표현으로 언급했다. 한국, 일본, 사우디 등은 리치 컨트리이며 돈이 많은 부자나라이므로 방위비를 더 내야한다는 기존 주장을 계속했다. 

[상대를 공격하는 데 더 많은 시간을 소비한 후보자는? 질문의 투표결과]

[트럼프의 공격이 정당했냐?는 질문의 투표결과]

[클린턴의 공격이 정당했냐?는 질문에 대한 투표결과]

CNN은 3차 토론 시청자를 대상으로 한 여론조사에서 어느 후보가 제대로된 토론을 했는지 알아보기 위해 추가적인 설문을 실시하고 방송했다. 

어느 대선 후보가 상대방을 공격하는데 시간을 더 많이 사용했냐는 질문에 트럼프가 63%로 압도적이었다. 이어서 트럼프의 공격이 정당했냐는 질문에 55%가 정당하다고 답변했고, 힐러리의 공격에 대해서는 63%가 정당하다고 답변했다.  

미국 대통령 선거 결과 9일 오후나 저녁에... 혹, 트럼프가 당선되면?

아래 '좋아요'를 눌러주시면 

관련 주제에 대해 계속 포스팅 합니다.

('좋아요'는 티스토리에 가입 안해도 눌러집니다.^^)

미국 대선 후보  힐러리-트럼프 3차 TV토론 직후 공개된 전체 영문 텍스트 스크립트 입니다. 일부 오타와 표현이 잘못 옮겨진 경우가 있을 수 있습니다. 

https://www.c-span.org/presidentialDebate/?debate=third

Chris Wallace: I'm Chris Wallace of Fox News. And I welcome you to the third and final of the 2016 presidential debates between secretary of state Hillary Clinton and Donald J. Trump.

This debate is sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. The commission has designed the format, six roughly 15-minute segments with two-minute answers to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed to those rules. For the record, I decided the topics and the questions in each topic. None of those questions has been shared with the commission or the two candidates. The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. No cheers, boos or other interruptions so we and you can focus on what the candidates have to say. No noise except right now as we welcome the Democratic nominee for president, Secretary Clinton, and the Republican nominee for president, Mr. Trump.

Secretary Clinton, Mr. Trump, welcome. Let's get right to it. The first topic is the Supreme Court. We — you both talked briefly about the court in the last debate, but I want to drill down on this because the next president will almost certainly have at least one appointment and likely or possibly two or three appointments, which means that you will in effect determine the balance of the court for what could be the next quarter century. First of all, where do you want to see the court take the country? And secondly, what's your view on how the constitution should be interpreted? Do the founders' words mean what they say or is it a living document to be applied flexibly according to changing circumstances? In this segment, Secretary Clinton, go first, you have two minutes.

Hillary Clinton: Thank you very much, Chris, and thanks to UNLV for hosting us. When we talk about the Supreme Court it really raises the central issue in this election, namely, what kind of country are we going to be? What kind of opportunities will we provide for our citizens?

What kind of rights will Americans have? And I feel strongly that the Supreme Court needs to stand on the side of the American people, not on the side of the powerful corporations and the wealthy.

For me, that means that we need a Supreme Court that will stand up on behalf of women's rights, on behalf of the rights of the LGBT community, that will stand up and say no to Citizens United, a decision that has undermined the election system in the country because of the way it permits dark, unaccountable money to come into our electoral system. I have major disagreements with my opponent about these issues and others that will be before the supreme court, but I feel that at this point in our country's history, it is important that we not reverse marriage equality, that we not reverse Roe v. Wade, that we stand up against Citizens United, we stand up for the rights of people in the workplace, that we stand up and basically say the Supreme Court should represent all of us. That's how I see the court and the kind of people that I would be looking to nominate to the court would be in the great tradition of standing up to the powerful, standing up on behalf of our rights as Americans, and I look forward to having that opportunity.

I would hope that the senate would do its job and confirm the nominee that President Obama has sent to them. That's the way the constitution fundamentally should operate. The president nominates and then the senate advises and consents or not.

But they go forward with the process.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton, thank you. Mr. Trump, same question. Where do you want to see the court take the country and how do you believe the constitution should be interpreted?

Donald Trump: Well, first of all, it's great to be with you and thank you, everybody. The Supreme Court, it's what it's all about. Our country is so, so, just so imperative that we have the right justices. Something happened recently where Justice Ginsburg made some very inappropriate statements toward me and toward a tremendous number of people, many, many millions of people that I represent, and she was forced to apologize and apologize she did. But these were statements that should never ever have been made.

We need a supreme court that, in my opinion, is going to uphold the second amendment and all amendments, but the second amendment, which is under absolute siege. I believe if my opponent should win this race, which I truly don't think will happen, we will have a second amendment which will be a very, very small replica of what it is right now. But I feel that it's absolutely important that we recall because of the fact that it is under such trauma. I feel that the justices that I am going to appoint — and I've named 20 of them — the justices that I'm going to appoint will be pro-life, they will have a conservative bent, they will be protecting the second amendment, they are great scholars in all cases and they're people of tremendous respect. They will interpret the constitution the way the founders wanted it interpreted.

And I believe that's very, very important. I don't think we should have justices appointed that decide what they want to hear.

It's all about the constitution of — and so important, the constitution the way it was meant to be and those are the people that I will appoint.

Wallace: We now have 10 minutes for open discussion. I want to focus on two issues that in fact by the justices that you name could end up changing the existing law of the land. First is one that you mentioned, Mr. Trump, and that is guns. Secretary Clinton you said last year, and let me quote, the Supreme Court is wrong on the second amendment.

Now in fact in the 2008 Heller case, the court ruled that there is a constitutional right to bear arms but a right that is reasonably limited. Those were the words of the Judge Antonin Scalia, who wrote the decision. What's wrong with that?

Clinton: Well, first of all, I support the second amendment. I lived in Arkansas for 18 wonderful years. I represented upstate New York. I understand and respect the tradition of gun ownership. It goes back to the founding of our country. But I also believe that there can be and must be reasonable regulation. Because I support the second amendment doesn't mean that I want people who shouldn't have guns to be able to threaten you, kill you or members of your family.

And so when I think about what we need to do, we have 33,000 people a year who die from guns. I think we need comprehensive background checks. We need to close the online loophole, close the gun show loophole. There are other matters that I think are sensible that are the kind of reforms that would make a difference that are not in any way conflicting with the second amendment.

You mentioned the Heller decision, and what I was saying that you reference, Chris, was that I disagreed with the way the court applied the second amendment in that case. Because what the District of Columbia was trying to do was protect toddlers from guns. They wanted people with guns to safely store them, and the court didn't accept that reasonable regulation, but they've accepted many other.

I see no conflict between saving people's lives and defending the second amendment.

Wallace: Let me bring Mr. Trump in here. The bipartisan open debate coalition got millions of votes on questions to ask here, and this was, in fact, one of the top questions that they got. How will you insure the second amendment is protected? You just heard Secretary Clinton's answer. Does she persuade you that, while you may differ on regulation, that she supports a second amendment right to bear arms?

Trump: The DC v. Heller decision was very strongly and she was extremely angry about it. I watched. She was very, very angry when upheld. And Justice Scalia was so involved, and it was a well crafted decision, but Hillary was extremely upset, extremely angry, and people that believe in the second amendment and believe in it very strongly were very upset with what she had to say.

Wallace: Let me bring in Secretary Clinton. Were you extremely upset?

Clinton: Well, I was upset because, unfortunately, dozens of toddlers injure themselves, even kill people with guns because, unfortunately, not everyone who has loaded guns in their homes takes appropriate precautions.

But there's no doubt that I respect the second amendment, that I also believe there's an individual right to bear arms. That is not in conflict with sensible, common-sense regulation. And you know, look, I understand that Donald's been strongly supported by the NRA, the gun lobby's on his side, they're running millions of dollars of ads against me. And I regret that because what I would like to see is for people to come together and say, of course, we're going to protect and defend the second amendment, but we're going to do it in a way that tries to save some of these 33,000 lives that we lose every year.

Wallace: Let me bring Mr. Trump back into that. Because, in fact, you oppose any limits on assault weapons. Any limits on magazines, you support a national right to carry law. Why, sir?

Trump: Let me just tell you before we go any further, in Chicago, which has the toughest gun laws in the United States, probably you could say by far they have more gun violence than any other city. So we have the toughest laws and you have tremendous gun violence.

I am a very strong supporter of the second amendment. And I don't know if Hillary was saying it in a sarcastic manner but I'm very proud to have the endorsement of the NRA. It's the earliest endorsement they've ever given to anybody who ran for president. I'm very honored by all of that.

We are going to appoint justices. This is the best way to help the second amendment. We're going to appoint justices that will feel very seriously about the second amendment. That will not do damage to the second amendment.

Wallace: Let's pick up on another issue which divides you and the justices that whoever ends up winning this election appoints could have a dramatic effect there, and that's the issue of abortion. Mr. Trump, you're pro life. But I want to ask you specifically, do you want the court, including the justices that you will name, to overturn Roe v. Wade which includes, in fact, states a woman's right to abortion?

Trump: Well, if that would happen, because I am pro-life and I will be appointing pro-life judges, I would think that that would go back to the individual states.

Wallace: But I'm asking you specifically --

Trump: If they overturned it, it will go back to the states.

Wallace: What I'm asking you, sir, is do you want to see the court overturn? You just said you want to see the court protect the second amendment. Do you want to see the court overturn Roe v. Wade?

Trump: If we put another two or perhaps three justices on, that will happen. And that will happen automatically in my opinion because I'm putting pro-life justices on the court. I will say this, it will go back to the states a tornado states will then make a determination.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton?

Clinton: I strongly support Roe v. Wade, which guarantees a constitutional right to a woman to make the most intimate, most difficult in many cases decisions about her health care that one can imagine. And in this case it's not only about Roe v. Wade. It is about what's happening right now in America so many states are putting very stringent regulations on women that block them from exercising that choice to the extent that they are defunding Planned Parenthood, which, of course, provides all kinds of cancer screenings and other benefits for women in our country.

Donald has said he's in favor of defunding Planned Parenthood. He even supported shutting the government down to defund planned parenthood. I will defend Planned Parenthood. I will defend Roe v. Wade and I will defend women's rights to make their own health care decisions.

Wallace: Secretary --

Clinton: And we've come too far to have that turn back now. Indeed he said women should be punished, that there should be some form of punishment for women who obtain abortions. And I could just not be more opposed to that kind of thinking.

Wallace: I'm going to give you a chance to respond, but I want to ask you, Secretary Clinton, how far you believe the right to abortion goes. You have been quoted as saying that the fetus has no constitutional rights. You also voted against a ban on late-term partial birth abortions. Why?

Clinton: Because, Roe v. Wade very clearly sets out that there can be regulations on abortion so long as the life and the health of the mother are taken into account. And when I voted as a senator, I did not think that that was the case. The kinds of cases that fall at the end of pregnancy are often the most heartbreaking, painful decisions for families to make. I have met with women who toward the end of their pregnancy, get the worst news one could get, that their health is in jeopardy if they continue to carry to term or that something terrible has happened or just been discovered about the pregnancy. I do not think the United States government should be stepping in and making those most personal of decisions. So you can regulate if you are doing so with the life and the health of the mother taken into account.

Wallace: Mr. Trump, your reaction and particularly on this issue of late-term partial birth abortion.

Trump: I think it's terrible if you go with what Hillary is saying in the ninth month you can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb of the mother just prior to the birth of the baby.

Now, you can say that that's okay, and Hillary can say that that's okay, but it's not okay with me. Because based on what she's saying and based on where she's going and where she's been, you can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month, only the final day. And that's not acceptable.

Clinton: Well, that is not what happens in these cases. And using that kind of scare rhetoric is just terribly unfortunate. You should meet with some of the women that I've met with.

Women I've known over the course of my life. This is one of the worst possible choices that any woman and her family has to make. I do not believe the government should be ING it. I've been to countries where governments forced women to have abortions like they did in China or force women to bear children like they used to do in Romania. I can tell you the government has no business in the decisions that women make with their families in accordance with their faith, with medical advice, and I will stand up for that right.

Wallace: All right. Just briefly, I want to move on.

Trump: And honestly, nobody has business doing what I just said, doing that as late as one or two or three or four days prior to birth, nobody has that.

Wallace: All right. Let's move on to the subject of immigration and there is almost no issue that separates the two of you more than the issue of immigration.

Actually, there are a lot of issues. Mr. Trump, you want to build a wall. Secretary Clinton, you've offered no specific plan for how you want to secure our southern border.

Mr. Trump, you are calling for major deportations. Secretary Clinton, you say within your first hundred days as president you'll offer a package that includes a pathway to citizenship. The question really is why are you right and your opponent wrong? Mr. Trump, you go first in this segment. You have two minutes.

Trump: First of all, she wants to give amnesty, which is a disaster and very unfair to all the people who are waiting in line for many years. We need strong borders. In the audience tonight we have four mothers of — I mean, these are unbelievable people that I've gotten to know over a period of years whose children have been killed, brutally killed by people who came into the country illegally. You have mothers, fathers, relatives all over the county. They're coming in illegally.

Drugs are pouring in through the border. We have no country if we have no border. Hillary wants to give amnesty, she wants to have open borders.

As you know, the border patrol agency, 16,500-plus ICE last week endorsed me. First time they've ever endorsed a candidate. It means their job is tougher, but they know what's going on. They know it better than anybody. They want strong borders. They feel we have to have strong borders. I was up in New Hampshire, the biggest complaint they have with all the problems going on in the world, many of the problems caused by Hillary Clinton and by Barack Obama, all of the problems, their single biggest problem is heroin that pours across our southern borders, just pouring and destroying their youth. It's poisoning the blood of their youth and plenty of other people.

We have to have strong borders. We have to keep the drugs out of our country. Right now we're getting the drugs, they're getting the cash. We need strong borders. We absolute -- we cannot give amnesty.

Now I want to build a wall. We need the wall. The border patrol, ICE, they all want the wall. We stop the drugs, shore up the border.

One of my first acts will be to get all of the drug lords, we have some bad, bad people in this country this have to go out. We'll get them out, secure the bothered and once the border is secured at a later date we'll make a determination as to the rest. But we have some bad hombres here and we're going to get them out.

Wallace: Mr. Trump, thank you. Same question to you, Secretary Clinton, basically why are you right and Mr. Trump is wrong?

Clinton: As he was talking I was thinking about a young girl I met here in Las Vegas, Carla, who was very worried that her parents might be deported because she was born in this country, but they were not. They work hard and do everything they can to give her a good life. And you're right, I don't want to rip families apart. I don't want to be sending parents away from children. I don't want to see the deportation force that Donald has talked about in action in our country. We have 11 million undocumented people. They have 4 million American citizen children — 15 million people. He said as recently as a few weeks ago in Phoenix that every undocumented person would be subject to deportation.

Now, here's what that means. It means you would have to have a massive law enforcement presence where law enforcement officers would be going school to school, home to home, business to business rounding up people who are undocumented and we would then have to put them on trains, on buses, to get them out of our country. I think that is an idea that is not in keeping with who we are as a nation. I think it's an idea that would rip our country apart. I have been for border security for years.

I voted for border security in the United States Senate. And my prehensive immigration reform plan of course includes border security. But I want to put our resources where I think they're most needed — getting rid of any violent person, anybody who should be deported, we should deport them. When it comes to the wall that Donald talks about building, he went to Mexico. We had a meeting with the Mexican president. Didn't even raise it. He choked, then got into a Twitter war because the Mexican president said, we're not paying for that wall.

So I think we are both a nation of immigrants and we are a nation of laws and that we can act accordingly. That's why I'm introducing immigration reform within the first hundred days with a path to citizenship.

Trump: Chris, I think it's an issue to respond to. First of all, I had a very good meeting with the president of Mexico. Very nice man. We will be doing very much better with Mexico on trade deals, believe me, than the NAFTA deal by her husband, one of the worst deals of any kind signed by anybody. It's a disaster. Hillary Clinton wanted the wall. Hillary Clinton fought for the wall in 2006 or thereabouts.

Now she never getting anything done so naturally the wall wasn't built. But Hillary Clinton want the wall. We're a country of laws. And by the way —

Wallace: I'd like to hear from Secretary Clinton.

Clinton: I voted for border security, and there are --

Trump: And the wall.

Clinton: There are some limited places where that was appropriate. There are also going to be new technology and how best to deploy that. But it is clear, when you look at what Donald has been proposing, he started his campaign bashing immigrants, calling Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals and drug dealers, that he has a very different view about what we should do to deal with immigrants. Now, what I am also arguing is that bring undocumented immigrants out from the shadows putting them in the formal economy will be good because employers can't exploit them and undercut their wages.

Donald knows a lot about this, he used undocumented labor to build Trump Tower. He underpaid undocumented workers and when they complained he said, what a lot of [people] do, you complain I'll get you deported. I want to get the economy working and not let employers like Donald exploit undocumented workers that hurts them and undocumented workers.

Trump: President Obama has moved millions of people out. Nobody knows about it, nobody talks about it. But under Obama, millions of people have been moved out of this country, they've been deported. She doesn't want to say that, but that's what's happened. And that's what's happened big league. As far as moving these people out and moving, we have a country or we don't. We're a country of laws. We either have a border or we don't. You can come back in and you can become a citizen, but it's very unfair — we have million of people that did it the right way.

They're on line, they're waiting. We're going to speed up the process big league because it's very inefficient. But they're in line and they're waiting to become citizens. Very unfair that somebody runs across the border, becomes a citizen. Under her plan you have open borders. You would have a disaster on trade. And you'll have a disaster with your open borders. What she doesn't say is that president Obama has deported millions and millions of people just the way it is. Wallace: Secretary Clinton -- Clinton: We will not have open borders. That is a rank mischaracterization. Wallace: Secretary Clinton? Clinton: We'll have secure borders but we'll also have reform. This used to be a bipartisan issue. Ronald Reagan was the last president -- Wallace: Excuse me. Secretary Clinton. Clinton: Designed immigration reform and George W. Bush supported it as well. Wallace: Secretary Clinton, I want to clear up your position on this issue because in a speech you gave to a Brazilian bank for which you were paid $225,000 we've learned from the Wikileaks that you said this and I want to quote, my dream is a hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders —Trump: Thank you.

Wallace: So that's the question. Please, quiet, everybody. Is that your dream, open borders?

Clinton: Well, if you went on to read the rest of the sentence, I was talking about energy. You know, we trade more energy with our neighbors than we trade with the rest of the world combined. And I do want us to have an electric grid, energy system that crosses borders. I think that would be a great benefit to us. But you are very clearly quoting from wikileaks and what's really important about wikileaks is that the Russian government has engaged in espionage against Americans. They have hacked American websites, American accounts of private people, of institutions, then they have given that information to Wikileaks for the purpose of putting it on the internet.

This has come from the highest levels of the Russian government, clearly from Putin himself, in an effort, as 17 of our intelligence agencies have confirmed to influence our election. So I actually think the most important question of this evening, Chris, is finally will Donald Trump admit and condemn that the Russians are doing this and make it clear that he will not have the help of Putin in this election, that he rejects Russian espionage against Americans which he actually encouraged in the past?

Those are the questions we need answered. We've never had anything like this happen in any of our elections before.

Trump: That was a great pivot off the fact that she wants open borders, okay? How did we get off to Putin?

Wallace: Hold on.

Trump: No, no.

Wallace: Hold on, folks. Because this is going to end up getting out of control. Let's try to keep it quiet for the candidates and for the American people.

Trump: Just to finish on the borders --

Wallace: Yes.

Trump: She wants open borders. People are going to pour into our country. People are going to come in from Syria. She wants 550% more people than Barack Obama, and he has thousands and thousands of people. They have no idea where they come from and you see, we are going to stop radical islamic terrorism in this country. She won't even mention the words and neither will president Obama. So I just want to tell you, she wants open borders.

Now we can talk about Putin. I don't know Putin. He said nice things about me. If we got along well, that would be good.

If Russia and the United States got along well and went after ISIS, that would be good. He has no respect for her. He has no respect for our president. And I'll tell you what, we're in very serious trouble because we have a country with tremendous numbers of nuclear warheads, 1,800, by the way, where they expanded and we didn't — 1800 nuclear warheads, and she's playing chicken. Look —

[Crosstalk]

Clinton: Well, that's because he'd rather have a puppet as president.

Trump: No puppet, no puppet.

Clinton: And it's pretty clear --

Trump: You're the puppet.

Clinton: It's pretty clear you won't admit.

Trump: No, you're the puppet.

Clinton: That the Russians have engaged in cyber attacks against the United States of America, that you encouraged espionage against our people, that you are willing to spout the Putin line, sign up for his wish list, rake up nato, do whatever he wants to do, and that you continue to get help from him because he has a very clear favorite in this race so I think this is such an unprecedented situation, we've never had a foreign government trying to interfere in our election.

We have 17, 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military, who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyber attacks come from the highest levels of the Kremlin and they are designed to influence our election. I find that deeply disturbing.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton --

Trump: She has no idea whether it's Russia, China or anybody else.

Clinton: I am not quoting myself.

Trump: She has no idea.

Clinton: There are 17 --

Trump: You have no idea.

Clinton: 17 intelligence. Do you doubt? 17 military --

Trump: Our country has no idea.

Clinton: And civilian agencies.

Trump: I doubt it.

Clinton: He'd rather believe Vladimir Putin than the military and civilian intelligence professionals who are sworn to protect us. I find that just absolutely —

Trump: She doesn't like Putin because Putin has outsmarted her at every step of the way.

Wallace: Mr. Trump --

Trump: Excuse me.

Wallace: Mr. Trump --

Trump: Putin has outsmarted her.

Wallace: Mr. Trump, I do get to ask some questions.

Trump: Yes.

Wallace: I would like to ask you this direct question. The top national security officials of this country do believe that Russia is behind these hacks. Even if you don't know for sure whether they are, do you condemn any interference by Russia in the American election?

Trump: By Russia or anybody else.

Wallace: You condemn their interference?

Trump: Of course I condemn. Of course. I don't know Putin. I have no idea —

Wallace: I'm not asking you that.

Trump: This is not my best friend. But if the United States got along with Russia, wouldn't be so bad. Let me tell you, Putin has outsmarted her and Obama at every single step of the way. Whether it's Syria. You name it. Missiles. Take a look at the start-up that they signed. The Russians have said, according to many, many reports, I can't believe they allowed us to do this. They create warheads and we can't. The Russians can't believe it. She's been outsmarted by Putin. All you have to do is look at the Middle East. They've taken over. We've spent $6 trillion. They've taken over the Middle East. She has been outsmarted and outplayed worse than anybody I've ever seen in any government whatsoever.

Wallace: We're a long way away from immigration, but I'm going to let you finish this topic. You have about 45 seconds.

Trump: And she always will be.

Clinton: I find it ironic that he's raising nuclear weapons. This is a person who has been very cavalier, even casual about the use of nuclear weapons.

Trump: Wrong.

Clinton: Japan, Korea, even Saudi Arabia. He said if we have them, why don't we use them, which I think is terrifying. The bottom line on nuclear weapons is that when the president gives the order, it must be followed. There's about four minutes between the order being given and the people responsible for launching nuclear weapons to do so. And that's why 10 people who have had that awesome responsibility have come out and in an unprecedented way said they would not trust Donald Trump with the nuclear codes or to have his finger on the nuclear button.

Trump: I have 200 generals and admirals, 21 endorsing me, 21 congressional medal of honor recipients. As far as Japan and other countries, we are being ripped off by everybody — we're defending other country. We're spending a fortune doing it. They have the bargain of the century. All I said is we have to renegotiate these agreements because our country cannot afford to defend Saudi Arabia, Japan, Germany, South Korea and many other places. We cannot continue to afford. She took that as saying nuclear weapons.

Look, she's been proven to be a liar on so many different ways. This is just another lie.

Clinton: Well, I'm just quoting you --

Trump: There's no quote. You're not going to find a quote from me.

Clinton: Nuclear competition in Asia, you said, you know, go ahead, enjoy yourselves, folks. That kind of --

Trump: And defend yourselves. And defend yourselves. I didn't say nuclear. And defend yourselves.

Clinton: United States has kept the peace through our alliances. Donald wants to tear up our alliances. I think it makes the world safer and, frankly, it makes the United States safer. I would work with our allies in Asia, in Europe, in the middle East and elsewhere. That's the only way we're going to --

Wallace: We're going to move on to the next topic, which is the economy. And I hope we handle that as well as we did immigration. You also have very different ideas about how to get the economy growing faster. Secretary Clinton, in your plan, government plays a big role. You see more government spending, more entitlements more tax credit, more penalties. Mr. Trump you want to get government out with less regulation. We'll drill down into this a little more. But in this overview, please explain to me why you think your plan will create more jobs and growth for this country and your opponent's plan will not. In this round, you go first, Secretary Clinton.

Clinton: I think when the middle class thrives, America thrives. And so my plan is based on growing the economy, giving middle class families many more opportunities.

I want us to have the biggest jobs program since World War II, jobs and infrastructure and advanced manufacturing. I think we can compete with high wage countries, and I believe we should. New jobs and clean energy not only to fight climate change, which is a serious problem, but to create new opportunities and new business I want us to do more to help small businesses.

I want to raise the minimum wage because people who live in poverty, who work full-time should not still be in poverty. I want to make sure that women get equal pay for the work we do. I feel strongly we have to have an education system that starts with preschool and goes through college. That's why I want more technical education in high schools and community colleges, real apprenticeships to prepare people for the real jobs of the future. I want to make college debt free and for families making less than $125,000, you will not get a division bill from a public college or university if the plan that I worked on with Bernie Sanders is enacted.

And we're going to work hard to make sure that it is. Because we are going to go where the money is. Most of the gains in the last years since the great recession have gone to the very top. So we'll have the wealthy pay their fair share.

We'll have corporations make a contribution greater than they are now to our country. [I have] a plan that has been analyzed by independent experts which said that it could produce 10 million new jobs. By contrast, Donald's plan has been analyzed to conclude it might lose jobs. Why? Because his whole plan is to give the biggest tax breaks ever to the wealthy and to corporations adding $20 trillion to our debt and pausing the kind of dislocation that we have seen before because it truly will be trickle-down economics on steroids.

So the plan I have I think will actually produce greater opportunities. The plan he has will cost us jobs and possibly lead to another great recession.

Wallace: Secretary, thank you. Mr. Trump, why will your plan create more jobs and growth?

Trump: Her plan is going to raise taxes and even double your taxes. Her tax plan is a disaster. And she can say all she wants about college tuition and I'm a big proponent, we're going to do a lot of things for college tuition, but the rest of the public's going be paying for it. We'll have a massive, massive tax increase under Hillary Clinton's plan.

But I'd like to start off where we left because when I said Japan and Germany and I'm not to single them out, South Korea, these are very rich, powerful countries. Saudi Arabia, nothing but money. We protect Saudi Arabia. Why aren't they paying?

She immediately, when she heard this, I questioned and I questioned NATO, why aren't the NATO questions paying, because they weren't paying. Since I did this, a year ago, all of a sudden they're paying. I've been given a lot of credit for it. All of a sudden they're starting to pay up.

They have to pay up. We're protecting people. They have to pay up. I'm a big fan of NATO, but they have to pay up. She comes out and said, we love our allies, we think our allies are great. It's awfully hard to get them to pay up when you have somebody saying we think how great they are. We have to tell Japan in a very nice way, we have to tell Germany, all of these countries, South Korea, we have to say, you have to help us out. We have during his regime, during President Obama's regime, we've doubled our national debt. We're up to $20 trillion.

So my plan, we're going to re-negotiate trade deals. We'll have more free trade than we have right now, but we have horrible deals. Our jobs are being taken out. NAFTA, one of the worst deals ever. Our jobs are being sucked out of our economy. You look at all of the places that I just left, you go the Pennsylvania, you go to Ohio, you go to Florida, you go to any of them, upstate New York, our jobs have fled to Mexico and other places. We're bringing our jobs back. I'm going to renegotiate NAFTA.

And if I can't make a great deal, then we're going to terminate nafta and great new deals. We'll have trade, but we'll terminate it, we'll make a great trade deal. And if we can't, we're going to go a separate way because it has been a disaster.

We're going to cut taxes massively. We'll cut business taxes massively. They're going to start hiring people. We're going to bring the $2.5 trillion that's offshore back into the country. We're going to start the engine rolling again because right now our country is dying at 1 percent GDP.

Clinton: Let me translate that if I can, Chris. Because --

Trump: You can't.

Clinton: Fact is, he's going to advocate for the largest tax cuts we've ever seen.

Three times more than the tax cuts under the Bush administration. I have said repeatedly throughout this campaign, I will not raise taxes on anyone making $250,000 or less. I also will not add a penny to the debt. I have costed out what I'm going to do. He will, through his massive tax cuts, add $20 trillion to the debt. He mentioned the debt. We know how to get control of the debt.

When my husband was president, we went from a $300 billion deficit to a $200 billion surplus and we're actually on the path to eliminating the national debt. When President Obama came into office he inherited the worst economic disaster since the great depression. He has cut the deficit by two-thirds.

So yes, one of the ways you go after the debt. One of the ways you create jobs is by investing in people. I do have investments, investments in new jobs, investments in education, skill training and the opportunities for people who get ahead and stay ahead. That's the kind of approach --

Wallace: Secretary.

Clinton: That will work. Cutting taxes on the wealthy. We tried that. It has not worked the way that it has been --

Wallace: Secretary Clinton, I want to pursue your plan. Because in many ways it is similar to the Obama stimulus plan in 2009, which has led to the slowest GDP growth since 1949.

Trump: Correct.

Wallace: Thank you, secretary. You told me in July when we spoke that the problem is that president Obama didn't get to do enough in what he was trying to do with this stimulus. So is your plan basically even more of the Obama stimulus?

Clinton: Well, it's a combination, Chris. Let me say that when you inherit the level of economic catastrophe that president Obama inherited, it was a real touch and go situation.

I was in the senate before I became secretary of state. I've never seen people as physically distraught as the bush administration team was because of what was happening to the economy.

I personally believe that the steps that president Obama took saved the economy. He doesn't get the credit he deserves for taking some very hard positions, but it was a terrible recession. So now we've dug ourselves out of it. We're standing, but we're not yet running. So what I am proposing is that we invest from the middle out and the ground up, not the top down.

That is not going to work. That's why what I have put forward doesn't add a penny to the debt, but it is the kind of approach that will enable more people to take those new jobs, higher paying jobs.

We're beginning to see some increase in incomes and we certainly have had a long string of increasing jobs. We've got to do more to get the whole economy moving, and that's what I believe I will be able to do.

Wallace: Mr. Trump, even conservative economists who have looked at your plan say that the numbers don't add up, that your idea, and you've talked about 25 million jobs created, 4%.

Trump: Over a ten-year period.

Wallace: Growth is unrealistic. And they say you talk a lot about growing the energy industry. They say with oil prices as they are right now, that's unrealistic as well. Your response?

Trump: So I just left some high representatives of India. They're growing at 8 percent. China is growing at 7 percent. And that for them is a catastrophically low number. We are growing, our last report came out and it's right around the 1 percent level and I think it's going down. Last week, as you know, the end of last week, they came out with an anemic jobs report. A terrible jobs report. In fact, I said is that the last jobs report before the election? Because if it is, I should win easily. It was so bad. The report was so bad. Look, our country is stagnant. We've lost our jobs. We've lost our businesses.

We're not making things anymore, relatively speaking, our product is pouring in from China, pouring in from Vietnam, pouring in from all over the world. I've visited so many communities, this has been such an incredible education for me, Chris. I've gotten to know so many — I've developed so many friends over the last year. And they cry when they see what's happened. I pass factories that were thriving 20, 25 years ago and because of the bill that her husband signed and she blessed a hundred percent, it is just horrible what's happened to these people in these communities. She can say that her husband did well, but boy, did they suffer as NAFTA kicked in because it didn't really kick in very much but it kicked in after they left. Boy, did they suffer. That was one of the worst things that's ever been signed by our country. Now she wants to sign transpacific partnership.

She lied when she said she didn't call it the gold standard in one of the debates. She totally lied and they fact checked and said I was right.

Wallace: I want to give you a chance to briefly speak to that and I want to pivot to -- Trump: And that was -- Wallace: Obamacare. Clinton: Let me say, number one, when I saw the final agreement for TPP, I said I was against it. It didn't meet my test. I've had the same test. Does it create jobs, raise incomes and further our national security? I'm against it now, I'll be against it after the election, I'll be against it when I'm President.

There's only one of us on this stages that actually shipped jobs to Mexico because that's Donald. He shipped jobs to 12 countries including Mexico, but he mentioned China. One of the biggest problems we have with China is the illegal dumping of steel and aluminum into our markets.

I've fought against that as a senator, I stood up against it as secretary of state, Donald has bought Chinese steel and aluminum. The Trump Hotel here in las Vegas was made with Chinese steel. He goes around with crocodile tears about how terrible it is, but he has given jobs to Chinese steel workers, not American teal workers —

Wallace: Mr. Trump?

Trump: That's the kind of approach that's going to work. We'll pull the country together. We'll have trade agreements that we enforce. I'll have trade prosecutor for the first time in history. We're going to enforce those agreements and look for businesses that help us by buying American products.

I ask a simple question. She's been doing this for 30 years. Why didn't you do it over the last 15, 20 years? You were very much involved — excuse me, my turn. You were very much involved in every aspect of this country, very much.

And you do have experience. I say the one thing you have over me is experience, but it's bad experience because what you've done is turned out badly. For 30 years you've been in a position to help and if you say that I used theater or I use something else make it impossible for me to do that.

You talk, but you don't get anything done, Hillary. You don't, just like when you ran the state department, $6 billion is missing. How do you miss $6 billion? You ran the state department. It was either stolen, they don't know, it's gone — 6 billion. If you become president, this country is going to be in some mess, believe me.

Clinton: Well, first of all, what he just said about the state department is not only untrue, it's been did you debunked numerous times. But I think it's really an important issue he raised the 30 years of experience.

Let me just talk briefly about that. You know, back in the 1970s, I worked for Children's Defense Fund, and I was taking on discrimination against African-American kids in schools. He was getting sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination in his apartment buildings.

In the 1980s, I was working to reform the schools in Arkansas. He was bore rogue $14 million from his father to start his businesses. In the 1990s, I went to Beijing and I said women's rights are human rights. He insulted a former miss universe, Alicia Machado, called her an eating machine.

Trump: Give me a break.

Clinton: And on the day when I was in the situation room, monitoring the raid that brought Osama bin Laden to justice, he was host "The Celebrity Apprentice." So I'm happy to compare my 30 years of experience, what I've done for this country, trying to help in every way I could, especially kids and families get ahead and stay ahead with your 30 years. And I'll let the American people make that decision.

Trump: Well, I think I did a much better job. I built a massive company, a great company, some of the greatest assets anywhere in the world worth many, many billions of dollars. I started with a $1 million loan. I agree with that. It's a $1 million loan. But I built a phenomenal company. And if we could run our country the way I've run my company, we would have a country that you would be so proud of, you would even be proud of it.

And frankly, when you look at her real record, take a look at Syria. Take a look at the migration. Take a look at Libya. Take a look at Iraq. She gave us ISIS because her and Obama created this small vacuum. A small group came out of that huge vacuum. We should have never been in Iraq. But once we were there, we never should have got out the way they wanted to get out. She gave us ISIS as sure as you are sitting there. And what happened is now ISIS is in 32 countries. And now I listen how she is going to get rid of ISIS. She is going to get rid of nobody.

Wallace: All right. We are going to get to foreign hot spots in a few moments. But the next segment is fitness to be president of the United States. Mr. Trump, at the last debate you said your talk about grabbing women was just that, talk, and that you had never actually done it. And since then, as we all know, nine women have come forward and said you either groped them or kissed them without their consent. Why would so many different women from so many different circumstances over so many different years, why would they all in this last couple of weeks make up -- you deny this. Why would they all make up these stories. And since this is a question for both of you, secretary Clinton, Mr. Trump says what your husband did and that you defended was even worse. Mr. Trump, you go first.

Trump: Well, first of all, those stories have been largely debunked. Those people, I don't know those people. I have a feeling how they came. I believe it was her campaign that did it. Just like if you look at what came out today on the clips where I was wondering what happened with my rally in Chicago and other rallies where we had such violence. She is the one — and Obama — that caused the violence. They hired people. They paid them $1500 and they're on tape saying be violent, cause fights, do bad things. I would say the only way, because the stories are all totally false. I have to say that. And I didn't even apologize to my wife who is sitting right here because I didn't do anything. I didn't know any of these women. I didn't see these women. These women, the woman on the plane, I think they want either fame or her campaign did it. And I think it's her campaign. When I saw what they did, which is a criminal act, by the way, where they're telling people to go out and start fistfights and start violence, I tell you what, in particular in Chicago, people were hurt and people could have been killed in that riot.

And that was now all on tape started by her. I believe, Chris, that she got these people to step forward. If it wasn't, they get their ten minutes of fame. But they were all totally — it was all fiction. It was lies and it was fiction.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton?

Clinton: Well, at the last debate we heard Donald talking about what he did to women. And after that a number of women have come forward saying that's exactly what he did to them. Now what was his response? Well, he held a number of big rallies where he said that he could not possibly have done those things to those women because they were not attractive enough for --

Trump: I did not say that. I did not say that.

Clinton: In fact, he went on to say --

Wallace: Sir, her two minutes.

Trump: I did not say that.

Wallace: Her two minutes.

Clinton: He went on to say look at her. I don't think so. About another woman, he said that wouldn't be my first choice. He attacked the woman reporter writing the story, called her disgusting as he has called a number of women during this campaign. Donald thinks belittling women makes him bigger. He goes after their dignity, their self-worth, and I don't think there is a woman anywhere who doesn't know what that feels like.

So we now know what Donald thinks and what he says and how he acts towards women. That's who Donald is. I think it's really up to all of us to demonstrate who we are and who our country is and to stand up and be very clear about what we expect from our next president, how we want to bring our country together where we don't want to have the kind of pitting of people one against the other, where instead we celebrate our diversity, we lift people up.

And we make our country even greater. America is great because America is good. And it really is up to all of us to make that true, now and in the future in particular for our children and our grandchildren.

Wallace: Mr. Trump --

Trump: Nobody has more respect for women than I do. Nobody. Nobody has more respect.

[Audience Reaction]

Wallace: Please, everybody.

Trump: And frankly, those stories have been largely debunked. And I really want to talk about something slightly different. She mentions this. Which is all fiction, all a fictionalized. Probable or possibly started by her and her very sleazy campaign. But I will tell you what isn't fictionalized are her e-mails where she destroyed 33,000 e-mails criminally, criminally, after getting a subpoena from the United States Congress.

What happened to the FBI? I don't know. We have a great general, four-star general today. You read it in all the papers, going to potentially serve five years in jail for lying to the FBI. One lie. She's lied hundreds of times to the people, to congress, and to the FBI. He is going to probably go to jail. This is a four-star general. And she gets away with it, and she can run for presidency of the United States? That's really what you should be talking about. Not fiction where somebody wants fame or where they come out of their crooked campaign.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton?

Clinton: Well, every time Donald has pushed on something which is obviously uncomfortable like what these women are saying, he immediately goes to denying responsibility. And it's not just about women. He never apologizes or says he is sorry for anything. So we know what he has said and what he has done to women. But he also went after a disabled reporter —

Trump: Wrong.

Clinton: He mocked and Mr and Mrs. Khan on national television. He went after Mr. And Mrs. Khan, the parents of Han who died serving our country, a gold star family because of their religion. He went after John McCain, a prisoner of war. Said he prefers people who aren't captured. He went after a federal judge, born in Indiana but who Donald said couldn't be trusted to try the fraud and racketeering case against Trump University because his parents were Mexican.

So it's not one thing. This is a pattern, a pattern of divisiveness of a very dark and in many ways dangerous vision of our country where he incites violence, where he applauds people who are pushing and pulling and punching at his rallies. That is not who America is. And I hope that as we move in the last weeks of this campaign, more and more people will understand what's at stake in this election. It really does come down to what kind of country we are going to have.

Trump: So sad when she talks about violence at my rallies and she caused the violence. It's on tape. Now the other things are false, but honestly, I'd love to talk about getting rid of ISIS. And I'd love to talk about other things.

Wallace: Okay.

Trump: But the other charges as she knows are frauds.

Wallace: In this bucket about fitness to be president, there has been a lot of developments over the last ten days since the last debate. I'd like to ask you about them. These are questions that the American people have. Secretary Clinton, during your 2009 senate confirmation hearing, you promised to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest with your dealing with the Clinton Foundation while you were secretary of state. But e-mails show that donors got special access to you.

Those seeking grants for Haiti relief were considered simply from non-donors, and some of those donors got contract, government contracts, active money. Can you really say you kept your pledge to that senate committee, and what happened and what went on between you and the Clinton foundation. Why isn't it what Mr. Trump calls pay to play.

Clinton: Well, everything I did as secretary of state was in furtherance of our country's interests and our values. The state department said that. I think that's been proven. But I am happy. In fact, I am thrilled to talk about the Clinton Foundation.

Because it’s a world-renowned charity. I'm so proud of the work it does. I could talk for the rest of the debate. I know I don't have the time to do that. But just briefly, the Clinton foundation made it possible for 11 million people around the world with HIV/AIDS to afford treatment. That's about half of all the people in the world who are getting treatment.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton --

Clinton: In partnership with the American Health Association, we have made environments in schools including healthier lunches.

Wallace: Secretary, respectfully, this is an open discussion.

Clinton: Well it is.

Wallace: I asked a specific question, pay or the play.

Clinton: But there is no evidence --

Wallace: Let's ask Mr. Trump.

[ Overlapping dialog ]

Trump: It's a criminal enterprise. Saudi Arabia giving $25 million. Qatar, all of these companies. You talk about women and women's rights. So these are people that push gays off buildings. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly. And yet you take their money. So I'd like to ask you right now why don't you give back the money that you have taken from certain countries that treat certain groups of people so horribly? Why don't you give back the money?

I think it would be great gesture. Because she takes a tremendous amount of money. And you take a look at the people of Haiti. I was in little Haiti the other day in Florida. And I want to tell you, they hate the Clintons because what's happened in Haiti with the Clinton Foundation is a disgrace. And you know it and they know it and everybody knows it.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton?

Clinton: Well, very quickly at the Clinton Foundation spend 90% of all the money that is donated on behalf of programs around the world and in our own country. I'm very proud of that. We are the highest rating from the watchdogs that follow foundations.

And I'd be happy to compare what we do with the Trump Foundation, which took money from other people and bought a six-foot portrait of Donald. I mean, who does that? It just was astonishing. But when it comes to Haiti, Haiti is the poorest country in our hemisphere. The earthquake and the hurricane, it has devastated Haiti.

Bill and have I been involved in trying to help Haiti for many years. The Clinton Foundation raised $30 million to help Haiti after the catastrophic earthquake and all of the terrible problems the people there had. We've done things to help small businesses, agriculture, and so much else. And we're going to keep working to help Haiti because it's an important part of the American experience.

Trump: I'd like to mention one thing: Trump Foundation, small foundation. People contribute. I contribute. The money — 100% goes to different charity, including a lot of military. I don't get anything. I don't buy boats. I don't buy planes. What happens, the money goes in —

Wallace: Wasn't some of the money used to settle your lawsuit, sir?

Trump: No, we put up the American flag. And that's it. They put up the American flag. We fought for the right in palm beach to put up the American flag.

Wallace: But there was a penalty imposed by Palm Beach County.

Trump: There was.

Wallace: The money came from your foundation.

Trump: There was.

Wallace: Instead of Mar-a-Lago.

Trump: Went to Fisher House, where they build houses, the money that you're talking about went to Fisher House, where they build houses for veterans and disabled.

Clinton: But of course there is no way we can know whether any of that is true because he hasn't released his tax returns. He is the first candidate ever to run for president in the last 40 plus years who has not released his tax returns. Serving what he says about charity or anything else we can't prove it. You can look at our tax returns. We've got them all out there. But what is really troubling is that we learned in the last debate he has not paid a penny in federal income tax. And we were talking about immigrants a few minutes ago, Chris. Half of all immigrants, undocumented immigrants in our country actually pay federal income tax. We have undocumented immigrants in America who are paying more federal income tax than a billionaire. I find that just astonishing.

Trump: We're entitled because of the laws that people like her passed to take massive amounts of depreciation and other charges, and we do it. And all of our donors, just about all of them, I know [Warren] Buffett took hundreds of millions of dollars, George Soros took hundreds of millions of dollars. Let me just explain.

Wallace: We heard this.

Trump: Most of her donors have done the same thing as I do.

Wallace: Folks we have heard this.

Trump: Hillary, what you should have done, you should have changed the law when you a United States senator.

Wallace: We heard this.

Trump: Because your donors and your special interests are doing the same thing as I do, except even more. So you should have changed the law, but you won't change the law because you take in so much money. I mean, I sat in my apartment today on a very beautiful hotel down the street.

Clinton: Made with Chinese steel.

Trump: I will tell you, I sat there watching ad after false ad, all paid for by your friends on wall Street that gave so much money because they know you're going to protect them. And frankly, you should have changed the laws. If you don't like what I did, you should have changed the laws.

Wallace: Mr. Trump, I want to ask you about one last question in this topic. You have been warning at rallies recently that this election is rigged and that Hillary Clinton is in the process of trying to steal it from you. Your running mate Governor Pence pledged on Sunday that he and you, his words, will absolutely accept the result of this election. Today your daughter Ivanka said the same thing. I want to ask you here on this stage tonight do, you make the same commitment that you will absolutely, sir, that you will absolutely accept the result of this election?

Trump: I will look at it at the time. I'm not looking at anything now. I will look at it at the time. What I've seen, what I've seen is so bad. First of all, the media is so dishonest and so corrupt. And the pile-on is so amazing. The New York Times actually wrote an article about it, that they don't even care. It's so dishonest. And they have poisoned the minds of the voters. But unfortunately for them, I think the voters are seeing through it. I think they're going to see through it. We'll find out on November 8.

Wallace: But sir —

Trump: Excuse me, Chris, if you look at your voter rolls, you will see millions of people registered to vote. This isn't coming from me, from fury report and other places. Millions of people that are registered to vote that shouldn't be registered to vote.

So let me just give you one other thing as I talk about the corrupt media. I talk about the millions of people. I tell you one other thing. She shouldn't be allowed to run. She's guilty of a very, very serious crime. She should not be allowed to run. And just in that respect I say it's rigged. Because she should never -- Chris, she should never have been allowed to run for the presidency based on what she did with e-mails and so many other things.

Wallace: Sir, there is a tradition in this country, in fact one of the primes of this country is the peaceful transition of power. And that no matter how hard fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign, that the loser concedes to the winner. Not saying that you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner. But that the loser concedes to the winner, and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?

Trump: What I'm saying is I'll tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense, okay?

Clinton: Let me respond to that, because that's horrifying.

Every time Donald thinks things are not going in his direction, he claims whatever it is is rigged against him. The FBI conducted a year-long investigation into my e-mails. They concluded there was no case. He said the FBI was rigged. He lost the Iowa caucus. He lost the Wisconsin primary.

He said the Republican primary was rigged against him. Then Trump University gets sued for fraud and racketeering. He claims the court system and the federal judge is rigged against him. There was even a time when he didn't get an Emmy for his TV program three years in a row and he started tweeting that the Emmys were rigged.

Trump: Should have gotten it.

Clinton: This is a mind-set. This is how Donald thinks. And it's funny, but it's also really troubling.

Trump: Okay.

Clinton: Now that is not the way our democracy works. We've been around for 240 years. We've had free and fair election. We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them. And that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. You know, president Obama said the other day when you're whining --

Wallace: — Hold on, folks, hold on, folks.

Clinton: Before you're even finished, it shows you're not up to doing the job. And let's, you know, let's be clear about what he is saying and what that means. He is denigrating, he is talking down our democracy.

And I for one am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position.

Trump: I think what the FBI did and the Department of Justice did including meeting with her husband, the attorney general in the back of an airplane on the tarmac in Arizona, I think it's disgraceful. I think it's a disgrace.

Wallace: All right.

Trump: I think we've never had a situation so bad as. This.

Wallace: Hold on, folks. This doesn't do any good for anyone. Let's please continue the debate and move on to the subject of foreign hot spots. The Iraqi defensive to take back Mosul has begun. If they're successful in pushing ISIS out of that city and out of all of Iraq, the question then becomes what happens the day after. And that's something that whichever -- whoever of you ends up as president is going to have to confront. Will you put U.S. troops into that vacuum to make sure ISIS doesn't come back or isn't replaced by something even worse? Secretary Clinton, you go first in this segment. You have two minutes.

Clinton: Well, I am encouraged that there is an effort led by the Iraqi army, supported by Kurdish

forces and also given the help and advice from the number of special forces and Americans on the ground. I will not support putting American forces into Iraq as a force. I don't think that is in our interest and I don't think it would be smart to do. Chris, I think that would be a big red flag waving for ISIS to reconstitute itself. The goal here is to take back Mosul. It's going to be a hard fight. I've got no illusions about that. And then continue to press into Syria to begin to take back and move on Raqqah, which is the ISIS headquarters.

I am hopeful that the hard work that American military advisers have done will pay off, and that we will see a really successful military operation. But we know we've got lots of work to do. Syria will remain a hotbed as terrorism as long as the civil war aided and abetted by the Iranians and the Russians continue.

So I have said look, we need to keep our eye on ISIS. That's why I want to have an intelligence surge that protect us here at home while we have to go after them from the air, on the ground, online. Why we have to make sure here at home we don't let terrorists buy weapons. If you're too dangerous to fly, you're too dangerous to buy a gun. And I'm going to continue to push for a no-fly zone and safe havens within Syria. Not only to help protect the iranians and prevent the constant outflow of refugees, but to frankly gain some leverage on both the Syrian government and the Russians so that perhaps we can have the kind of serious negotiation necessary to bring the conflict to an end and go forward on a political track.

Wallace: Mr. Trump, same question. If we are able to push ISIS out of mosul and out of Iraq, would you be willing to put U.S. Troops in there to prevent their return or something else?

Trump: Let me tell you, Mosul is so sad. We had Mosul. But when she left, she took everybody out, we lost Mosul. Now we're fight again to get Mosul. The problem with Mosul and what they wanted to do is they wanted to get the leaders of ISIS who they felt were in Mosul. About three months ago, I started reading that they want to get the leaders. And they're going to attack Mosul. Whatever happened to the element of surprise? Okay? We announce we're going after Mosul. I've been reading about going after mosul now for how long? Three months? These people have all left. They've all left. The element of surprise. Douglas MacArthur, George Patton spinning in their graves when they see the stupidity of our country. So we're now fighting for mosul that we had. All she had to do is stay there. Now we're going in to get it. But you know who is big winner in mosul is going to be after we eventually get it? And the only reason they did it is because she is running for the office of president, and they want to look tough. They want to look good.

He violated the red line in the sand. And he made so many mistakes. Made all mistakes. That's why we have the great migration. But she wanted to look good for the election. So they're going in. But who is going to Mosul, really? By the way, much tougher than they thought.

Much tougher, going to be more deaths than they thought. But the leaders we wanted to get are all gone because they're smart. They said what do we need this for? So Mosul is going to be a wonderful thing, and Iran should write us a letter of thank you, just like really stupid, the stupidest deal of all time.

A deal that is going to give Iran absolutely nuclear weapons. Iran should write us yet another letter saying thank you very much. Because Iran, as I said many years ago, Iran is taking over Iraq. Something they've wanted to do forever. But we've made it so easy for them. So we're now going to take Mosul. And you know who is going to be the beneficiary? Iran. Boy are they making — I mean, they are outsmarting. Look, you're not there. You might be involved in that decision. But you were there when you took everybody out of Mosul and out of Iraq. You shouldn't have been in Iraq. But you did vote for it. You shouldn't have been in Iraq. But once you were in Iraq, you should have never left the way.

Wallace: Sir, your two minutes are up.

Trump: The point is the winner is going to be Iran.

Clinton: Well, once again, Donald is implying that he didn't support the invasion of Iraq. I said it was a mistake. I said that years ago. He has consistently defined knight --

Trump: Wrong.

Clinton: What is a very clear fact.

Trump: Wrong.

Clinton: That before the invasion he supported it. I just want everybody to go Google it. Google Donald Trump Iraq and you will see the dozens of sources which verify that he was for the invasion of Iraq.

Trump: Wrong.

Clinton: And you can actually hear the audio of him saying that. Now why does that matter? Well, it matters because he has not told the truth about that position. I guess he believes it makes him look better now to contrast with me because I did vote for it. What's really important here is to understand all the interplay. Mosul is a Sunni city. Mosul is on the border of Syria. And yes, we do need to go after Baghdadi, just like we went after bin laden while you were doing Celebrity Apprentice, and we brought him to justice. We need to go after the leadership, but we need to get rid of them, get rid of their fighters, their estimated several thousand fighters in Mosul.

They've been digging underground. They've been prepared to defend. It's going to be tough fighting. I think we can take back mosul and move on into Syria and take bacharach ca. This is what we have to do. I'm just amazed that he seems to think that the Iraqi government and our allies and everybody else launched the attack on mosul to help me in this election. But that's how Donald thinks, you know. Looking for some --

Trump: Chris, we don't gain anything. Iran is taking over Iraq.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton --

Trump: Iran is taking over Iraq.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton --

Trump: We would have gained if we had surprise.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton, it's an open discussion. Secretary, secretary, please let Mr. Trump speak. Go ahead.

Clinton: And he proves it every time he talks.

Trump: No, you are the one that is unfit. Wikileaks just came out. John Podesta said some horrible things about you. And boy was he right. He said some beauties. And you know, Bernie Sanders, he said you have bad judgment. You do. And if you think that going into mosul after we let the world know we're going in and all of the people that we really wanted, the leaders, they're all gone. If you think that was good, then you do. Now John Podesta said you have terrible instincts. Bernie Sanders said you have bad judgment. I agree with both.

Clinton: Well, you should ask Bernie Sanders who he is supporting for president. And he has said --

Trump: Which is a big mistake.

Clinton: And campaigned for me around the country. You the most dangerous person to run for president in the modern history of America. I think he is right.

Wallace: Let's turn to Aleppo. Mr. Trump, in the last debate, you were both asked about the situation in the Syrian city of Aleppo. And I want to follow up on that because you said several things in that debate which were not true, sir. You said that Aleppo has basically fallen. In fact, there are — it's a catastrophe.

Trump: It is a catastrophe.

[Crosstalk]

Wallace: Are a quarter million people still living there and being slaughtered.

Trump: That's right. And they're being slaughtered because of bad decisions.

Wallace: If I may just finish here. And you also said that ISIS -- that Syria and Russia are busy fighting ISIS. In fact, they have been the ones who have been bombing and shelling eastern Aleppo. And they just announced a humanitarian pause, in effect admit Thanksgiving have been bombing and shelling Aleppo. Would you like to clear that up, sir?

Trump: Well, Aleppo is a disaster. It's a humanitarian nightmare. But it has fallen from any standpoint. Whether you need to sign a document, take a look at Aleppo. It is so sad when you see what's happened. And a lot of this is because of Hillary Clinton. Because what has happened, by fighting Assad, who turned out to be a lot tougher than she thought, and now she is going to say oh, he loves Assad, he's just much tougher and much smarter than her and Obama. And everyone thought he was gone two years ago, three years ago. He aligned with Russia. He now also aligned with Iran. Who we made very powerful. We gave them $150 billion back. We give them $1.7 billion in cash. I mean cash, bundles of cash as big as this stage. We gave them $1.7 billion.

Now they have aligned, he has aligned with Russia and with Iran. They don't want ISIS. But they have other things because we're backing, we're backing rebels. We don't know who the rebels are. We're giving them lots of money, lots of everything. We don't know who the rebels are. And when and if, and it's not going to happen because you have Russia and you have Iran now. But if they ever did overthrow Assad, you might end up as bad as Assad is, and he is a bad guy.

But you may very well end up with worse than Assad. If she did nothing, we'd be in much better shape. And this is what has caused the great migration where she has taken in tens of thousands of Syrian refugees who probably in many case, not probably, who are definitely in many cases ISIS aligned. And we now have them in our country and wait until you see this is going to be the great Trojan horse.

And wait until you see what happens in the coming years. Lots of luck, Hillary. Thanks a lot for doing a great job.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton, you have talked about in the last debate and again today that you would impose a no-fly zone to try to protect top the killing there. President Obama has refused to do that because he fears it's going to draw us closer, deeper into the conflict. And general Joseph Dunford, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff there says you want to impose a no-fly zone, chances are you're going to get into a war, his words, with Syria and Russia. So the question I have, if you impose a no-fly zone, first of all, how do you respond to their concerns? Secondly, if you impose a no-fly zone and a Russian plane violates that, does president Putin shoot that plane down?

Clinton: First of all, I think a no-fly zone could save lives and could hasten the end of the conflict. I'm well aware of the really legitimate concerns you have expressed from both the president and the general. This would not be done just on the first day. This would take a lot of negotiation, and it would also take making it clear to the Russians and the Syrians that our purpose here was to provide safe Zones on the ground.

We've had millions of people leave Syria. And those millions of people inside Syria who have been dislocated. So I think we could strike a deal and make a it very clear to the Russians and the Syrians that this was something that we believe was in the best interests of the people on the ground in Syria. It would help was our fight against ISIS. But I want to respond to what Donald said about refugees. He has made these claims repeatedly. I am not going to let anyone into this country who is not vetted, who we do not have confidence in.

But I'm not going to slam the door on women and children. That picture of that little 4-year-old boy in Aleppo with the blood coming down his face while he sat in an ambulance is haunting. And so we are going to do very careful, thorough vetting that does not solve our internal challenges with ISIS and our

need to stop radicalization, to work with American Muslim communities who are on the front lines to identify and prevent attacks. In fact, the killer of the dozens of people at the nightclub in Orlando, the pulse nightclub was born in queens, the same place Donald was born. So let's be clear about what the threat is and how we are best going to be able to meet it. And yes, some of that threat emanates from over in Syria and Iraq, and we've got to keep fighting. And I will defeat ISIS. And some of it is we have to up our game and be much smarter here at home.

Wallace: I want to get into our final segment.

Trump: But I just have to, it's so ridiculous. She will defeat ISIS. We should have never let ISIS in the first place. And right now they're in 32 countries. Wait, one second. They have, and a ceasefire three weeks ago. A ceasefire, United States, Russian, Syria. And during the ceasefire, Russia took over vast swatches of land and then said we don't want the ceasefire anymore. We're so outplayed on missiles, on ceasefires. She was not there so I assume she has nothing to do with it. But our country is so outplayed by Putin and Assad and by Iran. Nobody can believe how stupid our leadership is.

Wallace: Mr. Trump, Secretary Clinton, we need to move on to our final segment. And that is the national debt, which has not been discussed until tonight. Our national debt a share of gdp is now 70 percent. That's the highest since just after World War II. But the nonpartisan Committee for Responsible Budget says Secretary Clinton, under your plan, debt would rise to 86 percent of GPD over the next 10 years. Mr. Trump, under your plan, they say it would rise to 105 percent of GDP over the next 10 years. Question is, why are both of you ignoring this problem? Mr. Trump, you go first.

Trump: I say they're wrong because I'm going to create tremendous jobs. And we're bringing gdp from really 1 percent, which is what it is now. And if she got in it would be less than zero. But we're bringing it from 1 percent up to 4 percent. I think you can go higher, to 5 or 6 percent. We have a tremendous machine. We will have created a tremendous economic machine. To do that, we're taking back jobs. We're not going to let our countries be raided by other countries where we don't make our product anymore. It's very sad. I'm going to create a kind of country that we were from the standpoint of industry. We used to be there. We have given it up. We have become very, very sloppy. We've had people that are political ax making the biggest deal in the world. Bigger than companies. You take these big companies.

These trade deals are far bigger than companies. Yet we don't use our great leaders. Many of whom back me and many of whom back Hillary, I must say. But we don't use those people. These are the greatest negotiators in the world. We are the greatest business people in the world. We have to use them to negotiate our trade deals. We use political hacks. We use people that get the position because they made a campaign contribution. And they're dealing with China and people who have very much smarter than they are. We have to use our great people. We will create an economic machine the likes of which we haven't seen in many decades. And people, Chris, will again go back to work. And they'll make a lot of money. And we'll have companies that will grow and expand and start from new.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton?

Clinton: Well, first when I hear Donald talk about that and his slogan is “Make America Great Again.” I wonder when he thought America was great. And before he rushes and says “Before you and president Obama were there,” I think it's important to recognize that he has been criticizing our government for decades. You know, back in 1987, he took out a $100,000 ad in the New York Times during the time when President Reagan was president and basically said exactly what he just said now, that we were the laughingstock of the world.

He was criticizing President Reagan. This is the way Donald thinks about himself, puts himself into, you know, the middle and says I alone can fix it, as he said on the convention stage. But if you look at the debt, which is the issue you asked about, Chris, I pay for everything I'm proposing.

I do not add a penny to the national debt. I take that very seriously because I do think it's one of the issues we've got to come to grips with.

So when I talk about how we're going to pay for education, how we're going to invest in infrastructure, how we're going to get the cost of prescription drugs down, and a lot of the other issues that people talk to me about all the time, I've made it very clear, we are going where the money is.

We are going to ask the wealthy corporations to pay their fair share. And there is no evidence whatsoever that that will slow down or diminish our growth. In fact, I think just the opposite. We'll have what economists call middle outgrowth. We've got to get back to rebuilding the middle class. The families of America. That's where growth will come from. That's why I want to invest in you. I want to invest in your family. And I think that's the smartest way to grow the economy, to make the economy fairer. And we just have a big disagreement about this. It may be because of our experience. He started off with his dad as a millionaire. I started off with my dad as a small businessman.

Trump: We've heard this before. We've heard this before.

Clinton: I think it's a difference that affects how we see the world and what we want to do with the economy.

Wallace: Time.

Trump: Thank you, Hillary. Could I just respond?

Wallace: Well, no. Because we're running out of time.

Trump: Reagan was very strongly on trade. I disagreed with him. We should have been much tougher on trade even then. I've been waiting for years. Nobody does it right. And frankly now we're going to do it right.

Wallace: The one last area I want to get into in this debate is the fact that the biggest driver of our debt is entitlements, which is 60 percent of all federal spending. Now the committee for federal — responsible federal budget has looked at both of your plans and they say neither of you has a serious plan that is going to solve the fact that Medicare is going to run out of money in the 2020s. Social Security is going to run out of money in the 2030s. And at that time, recipients are going to take huge cuts in their benefits.

So in effect, the final question I want to ask you in this regard, and let me start with you, Mr. Trump, would President Trump make a deal to save Medicare and Social Security that included both tax increases and benefit cuts in effect a grand bargain on entitlements?

Trump: I'm cutting tax. We're going to grow the economy. It's going grow at a record rate.

Wallace: But that's not going to help entitlements.

Trump: It's going to totally help you. And one thing we have to do, repeal and replace the disaster known as Obamacare. It's destroying our country. It's destroying businesses. We have to repeal and replace Obamacare. You take a look at the kind of numbers that that will cost us in the year '17.

It is a disaster. If we don't repeal and replace it's probably going to die of its own weight. But Obamacare has to go. It's — the premiums are going up 60, 70, 80 percent.

Next year they're going to go up over 100 percent. And I'm really glad that the premiums have started at least the people see what is happening because she wants to keep Obamacare. And she wants to make it's even worse. And it can't get any worse. Bad Hillary Clinton — at the most we have to repeal and replace.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton, same question. At this point, social security and medicare are going to run out. Will you as president consider a grand bargain, a deal that includes both tax increases and benefit cuts to try to save both fronts?

Clinton: I want to enhance benefits for low income workers and for women who have been disadvantaged by the current social security system. But what Donald is proposing with the massive tax cuts will result in a $20 trillion national debt — that will have dire consequences for social security and medicare. And I'll say something about the Affordable Care Act, which he wants to repeal: The Affordable Care Act extended the solvency of the Medicare trust fund. So if he repeals it, our Medicare problem gets worse.

Trump: Your husband disagrees with you.

Clinton: The long-term health care drivers. We've got to get costs down, increase value, emphasize wellness. I have a plan for doing that. And I think that we will be able to get entitle spending under control by with more resources and smarter decisions. Wallace: This is the final time probably to both of your delight that you're going to be on stage together in this campaign. I would like to end it on a positive note, that you had not agreed to closing statements. But it seems to me in a funny way that might make it more interesting, because you haven't prepared closing statements. So I would like you each to take — we're going to put a clock up, a minute, as the final question and the final debate to tell the American people why they should elect you to be the next president. This is another new mini segment. Secretary Clinton, it's your turn to go first.

Clinton: Well, I would like to say to everyone watching tonight, that I'm reaching out to all Americans — Democrats, Republicans and Independents — because we need everybody to help make our country what it should be to grow the economy, to make it fairer, to make it work for everyone. We need your talents, your skills, your commitment, your energy, your ambition. I've been privileged to see the presidency up close.

And I know the awesome responsibility of protecting our country and the incredible opportunity of working to try to make life better for you. I have made the cause of children and families really my life's work.

That's what my mission will be in the presidency. I will stand up for families against powerful interests, against corporations. I will do everything that I can to make sure that you have good jobs with rising incomes, that your kids have good educations from preschool through college. I hope you will give me a chance to serve as your president.

Wallace: Secretary Clinton, thank you. Mr. Trump?

Trump: She is raising the money from the people she wants to control. It doesn't work that way. When I started this campaign, I started it very strongly. It's called make America great again.

We're going to make America great. We have a depleted military. It has to be helped. It has to be fixed. We have the greatest people on Earth in our military.

Well don't take care off our veterans. We take care of illegal immigrants better than we take care of our military. That can't happen. Our policemen and women are disrespected. We need law and order, but we need justice too. Our inner cities are a disaster. You get shot walking to the store. They have no education, they have no jobs. I will do more for African Americans and Latinos than she can ever do in ten lifetimes. All she has done is talk to the African Americans and to the Latinos.

But they get the vote and then they come back — they say we'll see you in four years. We are going to make America strong again. And we are going to make America great again. And it has to start now. We cannot take four more years of Barack Obama. And that's what you get when you get her.

Wallace: Thank you, both. Secretary Clinton — hold on just a moment, folks — Secretary Clinton, and Mr.Trump, I want to thank you both for participating in all three of these debates that brings to an end this year's debate sponsored by the commission on presidential debates.

We want to thank the University of Nevada, Las Vegas and its students for having us. Now the decision is up to you.

Well, millions have already voted election day, November 8th is just 20 days away. One thing everyone here can agree on. We hope you will go vote. It's one of the honors and obligations of living in this great country. Thank you and good night.

미국 대통령 선거 결과 9일 오후나 저녁에... 혹, 트럼프가 당선되면?

아래 '좋아요'를 눌러주시면 

관련 주제에 대해 계속 포스팅 합니다.

('좋아요'는 가입 안해도 눌러집니다.^^)

(다시보기 제공사이트 https://www.c-span.org/presidentialDebate/?debate=third)

힐러리 대 트럼프의 미국 대선 3차 텔레비젼 토론회가 한국시간 20일 10시부터 네바다주 라스베가스 네바다 대학에서 열린다. 

로그인이나 가입이 필요없는 인터넷 사이트와 유튜브를 통해서도 생방송 라이브 스트림 으로 볼수 있다. (아래 주소 참조) 1차토론회와 마찮가지로 15분씩 6개 분야를 다루어 90분간 열린다. 대통령으로써 적합성, 부채와 권리, 이민층에 대한 주요정책, 이메일 및 성추행 스캔들 까지 치열한 토론이 열릴예정이다. 

현재까지 여론조사결과를 바탕으로 힐러리 클린턴이 이길 확률을 98%까지 예상하는 뉴욕타임즈를 비롯한 미국 언론도 있다. 역사적으로 3차 토론 시점에서 앞서는 후보를 역전하는 경우는 거의 없었다. 

힐러리 클린턴은 선거인단 260명까지 확보 했으며 통상 270명까지 확보하면 당선이 확실시 된다고 할 수 있다. 트럼프는 170명을 확보했다. 텍사스와 노스캐롤라이나는 트럼프를 지지하는 유권자가 많은 지역이었으나 음담패설과 성추행 스캔들 이후 경함지역으로 돌아섰다. 

그러나 트럼프는 약 35%의 콘크리트 지지율이 있다. 미국은 투표율이 낮기 때문에 두 비호감 후보가 민주당과 공화당에서 각각 유권자 들의 투표 참석을 얼마나 이끌어 낼 것인가가 관건이 될 수 있다. 

여론조사와 설문조사에서는 힐러리가 우세하지만, 아직도 트럼프의 가능성에 대해 언급하는 의견들을 무시할 수는 없다. 할리우드의 대표적인 진보진영 인사로 분류되는 마이클 무어 감독은 사람들은 직접 물어보면 힐러리를 지지한다고 할 수 있으나 속마음은 다를 수도 있다고 언급한 바 있다. 그 동안 집계되지 않아 드러나지 않던 '트럼프가 대통령이 되면 어떻게 될까?'라는 호기심을 가진 유권자들의 표도 무시할 수 없다는 것이다. 

미대선 3차 토론회에서 힐러리가 승리를 위한 확고한 기반을 다질 것인지 트럼프가 역전의 기회를 노려볼 수 있을지 관심이 증폭된다. 트럼프는 마지막 까지 승리를 위해서 토론에 임할지 아니면 출구전략을 고려하여 선거에 패배한 이후를 대비한 자세를 취할지 관찰해 보는 것도 관전 포인트이다. 

[미국 대선 트럼프 vs. 힐러러 유튜브 라이브 스트리밍]

힐러리 대 트럼프 미대선 3차토론의 로그인이나 사이트 가입이 필요없는 

인터넷 라이브 방송은 아래 사이트에서도 바로 볼 수 있다. 

https://www.c-span.org/presidentialDebate/

아래 '좋아요'를 눌러주시면 

관련 주제에 대해 계속 포스팅 합니다.

('좋아요'는 가입 안해도 눌러집니다.^^)

    미국 퍼스트레이디 미쉘 오바마가 트럼프의 성추행 이력을 강력하게 비판했다. 

트럼프 사상최대 악재 '여성비하' 10년전 방송 비밀 인터뷰 녹음파일

힐러리 57%로 미국 대선 2차 토론 압승, 트럼프 음담패설 악재 예상보다 영향적어...

가수가 노벨상을 받는다. 스웨덴 아카데미는 13일 2016년노벨 문학상을 미국의 싱어 송 라이터 밥 딜런 (75)에게 수여한다고 발표했다.   ‘미국음악의 위대함에 새로운 시적표현을 창조했다’라는 위원회의 수상이유다. 

팝송 매니어가 아니라도 밥 딜런이란 이름은 어디선가 들어본 적이 있을 것이다.  ‘Knockin’ on heaven’s door’ 들어보니 그의 노래가 기억난다. 우리 정서와 흡사에서 한국에서도 널리알려진 곡이다. 

그런데, 가수가 노벨 문학상을 수상했다고? 의아하게 생각할 수도 있지만, 밥 딜런(75)은 현대 대중음악에 혁명을 일으킨 싱어송 라이터이다.  밥딜런은 1941년 미네소타주에서 유대인 이민자 가정에서 출생하여  미네소타 대학을 다니다가 포크송을 노래하기 시작했고 중퇴하여 뉴욕으로 이주하여 62년에 대뷔했다.  

딜런은 어린 시절 대공황 시대의 빈곤 노동자들의 감정을 노래한 포크 가수 우디 거스리 (1912 ~ 67년)에 심취한다.  베트남 전쟁과 인권운동, 히피즘이 몰아치전 60년대 미국에서 사회적 메세지가 강한 ‘민중가요’를 차례로 발표하고 대중의 지지를 받는다. 전쟁과 인종차별에 반대하는 대표적인 곡으로 ’Blowin’in the wind’ 가 있다. 

당시의 대중음악은 사랑에 대한 간단한 가사들이 대부분이었는데, 밥 딜런의 가사를 듣다보면 삶의 의미를 묻는 추상적인 색채가 밀려오며 유행가의 범위를 벗어난다. 

(출처 : 구글)

1960년대 중반 미국의 대학가에서는 ‘Another side of Bob Dylan’, ‘Bring it all black home’, ‘Highway 61 revisited’ 라는 곡들이 차례로 발표된 이후, ’밥딜런의 시분석’ 이라는 강좌가 유행했을 정도라고 한다. 

허스키한 목소리로 기타를 치며 포크,록,컨트리의 요소를 혼합한 독창적은 음악을 창조하여 전세계 많은 가수에게 영향을 주었다. 

가수 밥딜런의 노벨문학상 수상은 대중가요 가사의 ‘문학적인 가치’에 대한 인정이다.  우리나라에도 밥 딜런과 같은 민중가수도 많은데 ‘노벨문학상’은 영어 등 라틴계 문화권에서만 나오는 게 아닌지 아쉽다.  

CNN이 자체운영하는 여론조사 풀에서 미국 대선 2차토론을 시청한 응답자를 대상으로 한 결과에서 1차 토론 직후보다 낮지만 클린턴이 57%로 우세했다. 

힐러리 클린턴의 발언과 내용이 1차 대선토론보다 더 낳아졌다는 응답은 39%였고 나빠졌다는 응답은 26%, 동일하다는 응답은 34%였다.   

반면에 트럼프는 2차 토론회 직후 지지율은 떨어졌으나 내용과 진행면에서 1차보다 낳아 졌다는 의견이 63%였고, 더 못했다는 의견이 21%였으며 동일하다는 의견은 15%였다.  악재에도 대체적으로 잘 방어했다는 평가이다. 

트럼프가 (유출된 음담패설) 비디오파일에 대한 설명이 적절했냐는 여론조사도 실시됐다.  비디오에 대한 설명 이후에 트럼프에 대한 호감도가 오히려 증가했다는 응답자도 16% 있었으며, 호감도가 떨어졌다는 응답자는 25%, 동일하다는 의견이 58% 였다. 예상보다 트럼프를 지지하는 유권자들은 최근 악재에도 크게 동요하지 않는 것 아니냐는 미국 언론들의 걱정스러운 평가도 들린다. 

관련글 바로가기

미국 대선 2차 TV토론 - 성희롱 집중포화로 시작, 상호 존중할 것이냐는 질문으로 끝나..

트럼프가 10여년전 여성을 심하게 비하하는 인터뷰 파일이 공개되어 치명적인 악재로 작용하고 있다. 

트럼프는 아마도 한 방송 인터뷰에서 '예쁜 여성을 보면 참을 수 없다. 자동적으로 키스를 시작하게 되고 만약 그녀가 그대로 있으면 뭘해도 된다.  ....."  라고 언급했다.  사실이든 과장된 인터뷰이든 이번 파문은 쉽게 가라앉지 않을 테세다.  

아래 미국 엔비씨 방송의 더 켈리파일의 진행자 메건 켈리가 10월의 서프라이즈 라고 말하면서 입수한 10년전 비디오 클립을 공개했다. 

아래 유튜브의 러닝타임 50초 부터 시작된다. 

워싱턴 대학에서 열린 미국 대통령 후보자 2차 텔레비젼 토론은 힐러리와 트럼프 양측  모두 기대보다는 격하지 않은 수준이라고 미국언론들은 입을 모았다. 특히 힐러리는 최근 트럼프에게 터진 치명적인 '음담패설' 악재를 크게 건드리지 않는 모습을 보였다. 아마도 앞서 나가는 입장에서 크게 공격하기 보다는 무리하지 않고 승기를 지키려는 의도라는 것이 설득력있는 해석이다. 

트럼프의 음담패설 스캔들에 대해서 직접적으로 건드린 것은 진행자 CNN 현직 앵커 앤더슨 쿠퍼이다.   페트리스라는 청취자의 질문이라면서, "밝혀진 트럼프 후보자의 '음담패설' 녹음 내용에서 동의 없이 키스하고 여성의 그 곳(genital)을 만지려 했다. 여성을 성희롱한 것이 자랑스럽냐?고 직격탄을 날렸다. 그런 음담패설을 방송에 대고 '자랑스럽게' 인터뷰 했냐고 비난하는 질문이다.    

여기에 대해 트럼프는 그런말 한적이 없다고 잘라 말하며 모호하게 말을 이어갔다.  그러나 앤더슨 쿠퍼는 명확하게 말하라면서 질문을 이어갔고, 그래서 자랑한것처럼 그런일이 '실제 있었냐'는 질문에 나는 여성을 존중한다. 음담패설 녹음 내용은 단지 '락커룸 토크'다. 말일 뿐이다 그런일을 한적이 없다고 말했다. 트럼프는 클린턴의 성추행에 대해서 언급하며 반격을 시도 했으나, 힐러리는 크게 동요하지 않았다. 심지어, 미국 대통령 영부인 미쉘 오바바의 조언(they go low. we go high)을 언급하며 가볍게 묵살했다.  미쉘 오바마의 조언인 상대평이 낮게 끌어내려도, 높게 가자라는 말을 인용하여 가벼운 박수를 받았다.  

이어서 오바마 케어, 기업과 중산층 세금, 불법이민자, IS 격퇴, 러시아와의 관계에 대한 논쟁을 이어 갔다. 

이번 토론에서토 팩트 체커들이 실시간으로 대선 후보들의 발언을 검증하여 인터넷에 실시간으로 공유했다. 그 중 몇가지 살펴보면, 트럼프는 이란이 미국으로부터 1500억 달러를 받았다고 했으나 틀린 주장이며 미 재무부는 550억달러 규모, 이란은 320억달러로 주장하고 있다. 

<워싱텅 포스트 팩트 체커 사이트 인용>

트럼프는 또한 이라크전에 반대했다고 했는데, 트럼프가 반대한 증거가 없으며, 2002년과 2004년에 이라크전에 대해서 물었을 때 미온적으로 찬성하는 입장을 보였었다. 이번 토론에서는 안보무임론 등 한국, 일본 등 동아시아 현안에 대한 토론은 없었다. 

트럼프는 중간 중간 억지스럽지만 재치있는 말대꾸로 웃음을 자아내는 쇼맨십을 보였다.  힐러리가 '더 낳은 정치를 하겠다'는 트럼프의 발언에 대해 수백만의 팩트 체커(fact checker)들이 보고 있다.  힐러리는 "트럼프 당신 같이 (사실이 아니고 부정확한 발언을 하는) 성질의 사람이 미국의 법률의 수장이 되면 안된다." 고 말하자 트럼프는 "당연하지 그러면 힐러리 당신은 (보안 메일 유출등으로) 감옥에 갈것이다"라고 받아 쳐서 토론장을 짧막한 웃음바다로 만들었다.  

힐러리는 침착한 표정이었지만, 계속된 감옥 운운하는 공격과 헙박에 당황스러움이 간혹 묻어 났다. 이후 에도 트럼프는 만약 11월 대승에 승리하면 힐러리를 '비밀 이메일을 유출한 혐의'로 감옥에 보낼것이라고 호언했다. 연방검찰에 소환 통보를 받은 직후 3만2천개의 이메일 삭제 했다고 연신 언급하면서 국가기밀유출과 증거인멸 등의 혐의를 암시하는 협박을 여러번에 걸쳐서 이어갔다. 

토론 마지막에는 토론장에 참석한 한 유권자 떨리는 목소리로 '두 후보가 혹시라도 서로에 대해 칭찬할 점이 있냐'는 질문을 하여 분위기가 확 누그러졌다. 이에 힐러리는 당신의 자녀들은 훌륭하다고 칭찬했고, 트럼프는 힐러리는 포기할 줄 모르는 싸움꾼이라고 서로 치켜세웠다. 처음 입장할 때는 악수도 하지 않고 시작했다가, 칭찬으로 종료하며 악수했다. 미국 언론들은 토론 마지막의 '상호 칭찬'한 부분을 자주 방송했는데, 역겹다는 뉘앙스로 비꼬았다.  힐러리를 지하는 방송 패널과 트럼프를 지지하는 방송 패널들이 이 부분이 나오면 서로를 '포기하지 않는 투사'라고 치켜세우며 조롱하고 있다. 

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트럼프 사상최대 악재 '여성비하' 10년전 방송 비밀 인터뷰 녹음파일

2016년 10월 9일(한국시간 10일 10시 시작) 미국 대통령 선거 후보 힐러리 클린턴과 도널트 트럼프 TV 토론 발언 전체 내용 영어 스크립트 원본입니다. 

MARTHA RADDATZ

Good evening, I’m Martha Raddatz from ABC News.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:02 PM

And I’m Anderson Cooper from CNN. We want to welcome you to Washington University in St. Louis for the second presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. Tonight’s debate is a town hall format which gives voters a chance to directly ask the candidates questions. Martha and I will ask follow-up questions but the night really belongs to the people in this room and to people across the country who have submitted questions online.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:06 PM

The people you see on this stage were chosen by the Gallup organization. They are all from the St. Louis area and told Gallup they haven't committed to a candidate. Each of them came here with questions they wanted to ask and we saw those questions for the first time this morning. Anderson and I and our team from ABC and CNN are the only ones who have seen them. Both candidates will have two minutes to answer each audience and online question. We hope to get to as many questions as we can so we've asked the audience here not to slow things down with any applause. Except for now. Ladies and gentlemen, the Republican nominee for president Donald J. Trump and the Democratic nominee for president, Hillary Clinton.

(APPLAUSE)

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:07 PM

ANDERSON COOPER

9:07 PM

Thank you very much for being here. We’re going to begin with a question from one of the members in our town hall. Each of you will have two minutes to respond to this question. Secretary Clinton, he won the coin toss so you will go first. Our first question comes from Patrice Brock. Patrice.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

9:08 PM

Thank you and good evening. The last presidential debate could've been rated as MA - mature audiences - per TV parental guidelines. Knowing that educators are tying the presidential debates to student homework, do you feel you are modeling appropriate and positive behavior for today's youth?

HILLARY CLINTON

9:08 PM

Well thank you, are you a teacher? Yes, I think that that's a very good question because I've heard from lots of teachers and parents about some of their concerns, about some of the things that are being said and done in this campaign.

And I think it is very important for us to make clear to our children that our country really is great because we are good. And we are going to respect one another, lift each other up. We are going to be looking for ways to celebrate our diversity. And we are going to try to reach out to every boy and girl as well as every adult to bring them in to working on behalf of our country. I have a very positive and optimistic view about what we can do together. That's why the slogan of my campaign is stronger together. 

Because I think if we work together, if we overcome the divisiveness that sometimes sets Americans against one another, and instead we make some big goals and I've set forth some big goals - getting the economy to work for everyone, not just those at the top, making sure that we have the best education system from preschool through college and making it affordable and so much else if we set those goals and we go together to try to achieve them there's nothing, in my opinion, that America can't do.

So that's why I hope that we will come together in this campaign. Obviously I'm hoping to earn your vote, I'm hoping to be elected in November, and I can promise you I will work with every American. I want to be the president for all Americans. Regardless of  your political beliefs, where you come from, what you look like, your religion -- I want us to heal our country and bring it together. Because that's, I think, the best way for us to get the future that are children and our grandchildren deserve.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:10 PM

Secretary Clinton, thank you. Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP

9:10 PM

Well, I actually agree with that. I agree with everything she said. I began this campaign because I was so tired of seeing such foolish things happen to our country. This is a great country. This is a great land. I've gotten to know the people of the country over the last year and a half that I've been doing this as a politician. I cannot believe that I'm saying that about myself, but I guess I have been a politician. And my whole concept was to make America great again. When I watch the deals being made, when I watch what's happening with some horrible things like Obamacare where your health insurance and health care is going up by numbers that are astronomical 68 percent, 59 percent, 71 percent, when I look at the Iran deal and how bad a deal it is for us, it's a one-sided transaction where we’re giving back one hundred fifty billion dollars to a terrorist state, really, the number one terrorist state, we've made them a strong country from really a very weak country just three years ago.

When I look at all of the things that I see and all the potential that our country has, we have such tremendous potential, whether it's in business and trade where we’re doing so badly.

Last year we had an almost 800 billion dollar trade deficit. In other words, trading with other countries we had 800 billion dollars deficit, that’s hard to believe. Inconceivable. You say who's making these deals? We’re going to make great trade deals we’re going to have a strong border we’re going to bring back law and order. Just today policemen were shot - two killed - and this is happening on a weekly basis. We have to bring back respect to law enforcement.

At the same time we have to take care of people on all sides. We need justice. But I want to do things that haven’t been done including fixing and making our interest that is better for the African-American citizens that are so great and for the Latinos, Hispanics, and I look forward to doing it - it’s called make America great again.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:13 PM

Thank You Mr. Trump. The question from Patrice was about are you both modeling positive and appropriate behaviors for today's youth. We received a lot of questions online Mr. Trump about the tape that was released on Friday, as you can imagine. You called what you said locker room banter. You described kissing women without consent grabbing the genitals. That is sexual assault. You brag that you have sexually assaulted women. Do you understand that?

DONALD TRUMP

9:13 PM

No I didn't say that at all.

I don't think you understood what was said. This was locker room talk. I'm not proud of it. I apologized to my family. I apologized to the American people. Certainly I'm not proud of it, but this is locker room talk. You know when we have a world where you have ISIS chopping off heads, where you have men frankly drowning people in steel cages, where you have wars and horrible, horrible sites all over where you have so many bad things happening, this is like medieval times, we haven't seen anything like this -- the carnage all over the world -- and they look and they see. Can you imagine the people that are frankly doing so well against us with ISIS and they look at our country and they see what's going on. Yes, I'm very embarrassed by it. I hate it. But it’s locker room talk and it's one of those things. I will knock the hell out of ISIS, we’re going to defeat ISIS. ISIS happened a number of years ago in a vacuum that was left because of bad judgment and I will tell you I will take care of ISIS.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:14 PM

So Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

9:14 PM

And we can get onto much more important things and much bigger things.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:14 PM

Just for the record though are you saying that what you said on that bus eleven years ago that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?

DONALD TRUMP

9:14 PM

 I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:15 PM

So for the record you're saying you never did.

DONALD TRUMP

9:15 PM

Frankly, you hear these things are said and I was embarrassed by it but I have tremendous respect for women.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:15 PM

Have you ever done those things?

DONALD TRUMP

9:15 PM

And women have respect for me. And I will tell you, no I have not, and I will tell you that I'm going to make our country safe we’re going to have borders in our country which we don't have now. People are pouring into our country and they are coming in from the Middle East and other places. We’re going to make America safe again. We’re going to make America great again but we’re going to make America safe again. And we’re going to make America wealthy again because if you don't do that it, just it sounds harsh to say, but we have to build up the wealth of. American people.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:14 PM

So Mister Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

9:14 PM

And we can get onto much more important things a much bigger things.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:14 PM

Just for the record though are you saying that what you said on that bus eleven years go by you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?

DONALD TRUMP

9:14 PM

I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women that I do.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:15 PM

So for the record you're saying you never did.

DONALD TRUMP

9:15 PM

Frankly you hear these things are said and I was embarrassed by it but I have tremendous respect for women.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:15 PM

Have you ever done those things?

DONALD TRUMP

9:15 PM

And women have respect for me and I will tell you know I have not and I will tell you that I'm going to make our country safe we’re going to have borders in our country which we don't have now. People are pouring into our country and are coming in from the Middle East and other places. Were going to make America safe again. Were going to make America great again but we’re going to make America safe again. And we’re going to make America wealthy again because if you don't do that it just it sounds harsh to say but we have to build up the wealth of.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:15 PM

Thank You Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

9:25 PM

Other nations are taking our jobs and are taking our wealth.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:15 PM

Thank You Mister Trump. Secretary Clinton, do you want to respond?

HILLARY CLINTON

9:15 PM

Well, like everyone else I spent a lot of time thinking over the last forty eight hours about what we heard and saw. You know, with prior Republican nominees for president, I disagreed with them -- on politics, policies, and principles, but I never questioned their fitness to serve. Donald Trump is different. I said starting back in June that he was not fit to be president and commander-in-chief. 

And many Republicans and independents have said the same thing. What we all saw and heard on Friday was Donald talking about women what he thinks about women, what he does to women, and he has said that the video doesn't represent who he is. But I think it's clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly who he is. Because we've seen this throughout the campaign. We have seen him insult women. We've seen him rate women on their appearance, ranking them from one to ten. We've seen him embarrass woman on TV and on Twitter. We saw him after the first debate spend nearly a week denigrating a former Miss Universe in the harshest, most personal terms.

So yes, this is who Donald Trump is. But it's not only women and it’s not only this video that raises questions about his fitness to be our president. Because he has also targeted immigrants, African Americans, Latinos, people with disabilities, POWs, Muslims, and so many others. So this is who Donald Trump is and the question for us, the question our country must answer, is that this is not who we are. That's why, to go back to your question, I want to send a message -- we all should -- to every boy and girl and indeed to the entire world, that America already is great, but we are great because we are good. And we will respect one another and we will work with one another and we will celebrate our diversity. These are very important values to me because this is the America that I know and love. And I can pledge to you tonight that this is the America that I will serve if I'm so fortunate enough to become your president.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:18 PM

And we want to get to some questions from online.

DONALD TRUMP

9:19 PM

Well am I allowed to respond to that? I assume I am.

MARTHA RADDATZ

Yes, you can respond to that.

DONALD TRUMP

It’s just words, folks. It’s just words. And those words I've been hearing them for many years. I heard them when they were running for the Senate in New York where Hillary was going to bring back jobs upstate New York. And she failed. I’ve heard them when Hillary's constantly talking about the inner cities of our country, which are a disaster education-wise, job-wise, safety-wise. In every way possible. I'm going to help the African-Americans. I’m going to help the Latinos, Hispanics. I am going to help the inner cities. She has done a terrible job for the African-Americans. She wants their vote and she does nothing and then she comes back four years later. We saw that firsthand when she was a United States senator. She campaigned where the primary part of her campaign-

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:20 PM

Mr. Trump. I want to get to audience questions and online questions.

DONALD TRUMP

9:20 PM

So she’s allowed to do that but I'm not allowed to respond. Sounds fair, sounds fair--

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:20 PM

You going to get to respond right now. This tape is generating intense interest. In just forty eight hours, it’s become the single most talked-about story of the entire 2016 election on Facebook with millions and millions of people discussing it on the social network. As we said a moment ago, we do want to bring in questions from voters around the country via social media. And our first stays on the topic, Jeff from Ohio asks on Facebook, Trump says the campaign has changed him. When did that happen? So Mr. Trump, let me add to that -- when you walked off that bus at eight fifty nine, were you a different man or did that behavior continue until just recently? And you have two minutes for this.

DONALD TRUMP

9:21 PM

That was locker room talk, as I told you. That was locker room talk. I'm not proud of it. I am a person who has great respect for people, for my family, for the people of this country. And certainly, I’m not proud of it. But that was something that happened. If you look at Bill Clinton, far worse -- mine are words, and his was action. His was far worse -- what he’s done to women, there’s never been anyone in the history of politics in this nation who has been so abusive to women. So you could say anyway you want to say it, but Bill Clinton was abusive to women. Hillary Clinton attacked those same women and attacked them viciously. 

Four of them here tonight. One of the women who was a wonderful woman, 12 years old, was raped -- at twelve. Her client -- she represented, got  him off. And she’s seen laughing on two separate occasions, laughing at the girl who was raped. Kathy Shelton, that young woman is here with us tonight.

So don't tell me about words. I am absolutely I apologize for those words. But it is things that people say. But what President Clinton did -- he was impeached. He lost his license to practice law. He had to pay an $850,000 fine  to one of the women, Paula Jones, who is also here tonight.

And I will tell you that when Hillary brings up a point like that and she talks about words that I said eleven years ago, I think it's disgraceful. And I think she should be ashamed of herself, if you want to know the truth.

(APPLAUSE)

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:23 PM

Can we please hold the applause? Secretary Clinton, you have two minutes.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:23 PM

While, first, let me start by saying that so much of what he just said is not right. But he gets to run his campaign any way he chooses. He gets to decide what you want to talk about. Instead of answering people’s questions, talking about our agenda, laying out the plans that we have that we think can make a better life and a better country. That's his choice. When I hear something like that, I am reminded of what my friend Michelle Obama advised us all. When they go low, you go high.

(APPLAUSE)

HILLARY CLINTON

9:23 PM

And look, if this were just about one video, maybe what he's saying tonight would be understandable. But everyone can draw their own conclusions at this point about whether or not the man in the video or the man on the stage respects women. But he never apologizes for anything to anyone. He never apologized to Mr. and Mrs. Khan, the Gold Star family, whose son Captain Khan, died in the line of duty in Iraq. And Donald insulted and attacked them for weeks over their religion.

He never apologized to the distinguished federal judge who was born in Indiana, but Donald said he couldn't be trusted to be a judge because his parents were quote “Mexican.” He never apologized to the reporter that he mimicked and mocked on national television and our children were watching. And he never apologized for the racist lie that President Obama was not born in the United States of America. He owes the president an apology. He owes our country an apology, and he needs to take responsibility for his actions and his words.

DONALD TRUMP

9:25 PM

Well, you owe the president an apology because, as you know very well, your campaign, Sidney Blumenthal, he's another real winner that you have. And he's the one that got this started along with your campaign manager and they were on television just two weeks ago he was saying exactly that.

The you really owe him. Or the one who sent the picture to run your campaign -- the pictures around President Obama in a certain garb. That was long before I was ever involved, so you actually owe an apology. Number two, Michelle Obama -- I've gotten to see the commercials that they did on you. And I’ve gotten to see some of the most vicious commercials I’ve ever seen of Michelle Obama talking about you, Hillary. So you talk about friend, go back and take a look at those commercials. A race where you lost fair and square, unlike the Bernie Sanders race where you won, but not fair and square, in my opinion. And all you have to do is take a look at WikiLeaks and just see what they said about Bernie Sanders and see what Debra Wasserman Schultz had in mind because Bernie Sanders, between superdelegates and Debra Wasserman Schultz, he never had a chance. I was so surprised to see him sign on the devil. But when you talk about apology,I think the one that you should really be apologizing for -- and the thing that you should be apologizing for are the thirty three thousand e-mails that you deleted and that you acid washed and then the two boxes of e-mails and other things last week that were taken from an office and are now missing. And I'll tell you what, I didn’t think I'd say this, is going to say it, and I hate to say it. But if I win, I am going to instruct my Attorney General to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception. There has never been anything like it. And we're going to have a special prosecutor.

When I speak, I go out and speak, the people of this country are furious. In my opinion, the people that have been long-term workers at the FBI are furious. There has never been anything like this where e-mails and you get a subpoena -- you get a subpoena and after getting the subpoena, you delete 33,000 e-mails. And then you acid wash them or bleach them, as you would say-- a very expensive process. So we're going to get a special prosecutor, and we’re going to look into it. Because you know what? People have been -- their lives have been destroyed for doing one fifth of what you’ve done. And it’s a disgrace. And honestly, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. 

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:28 PM

Secretary Clinton, I want to follow up on that. I’m going to let you talk about it --

HILLARY CLINTON

9:28 PM

Everything he just said is absolutely false, but I’m not surprised. In the first debate -

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:28 PM

The audience is to call down here.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:28 PM

I told people that will be impossible to be fact checking Donald all the time. I'd never get talk about anything I want to do and how we’re going to really make lives better for people. So once again, go to HillaryClinton.com. We have literally Trump. You can fact check him in real-time. Last time, this debate, had millions of people fact checking. So I expect we'll have millions more fact checking because, you know, it is -- it’s just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country.

DONALD TRUMP

9:29 PM

Because you'd be in jail.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:29 PM

Secretary Clinton --

(APPLAUSE)

ANDERSON COOPER

9:29 PM

We want to remind the audience to please not talk out loud. Please do not applaud. You’re just wasting time.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:29 PM

And Secretary Clinton, I do want to follow up on e-mails. You said your handling of your e-mails was a mistake. You disagreed with the director -- FBI Director James Comey calling your handling of classified information quote “extremely careless.” The FBI said that there are one hundred ten classified e-mails that were exchanged, eight of which were top-secret and that a possible hostile actors did gain access to those e-mails. You don't call that extremely careless?

HILLARY CLINTON

9:30 PM

Well Martha, first let me say. I’ve said it before but I’ll repeat it because I want everyone to hear it. That was a mistake, to take responsibility for using a personal email account. Obviously, if I were to do it over again, I would not. I'm not making any excuses. It was a mistake, and I am very sorry about that.

But I think it's also important to point out where there are some misleading accusations from critics and others.After a year-long investigation, there is no evidence that anyone hacked the server I was using. And there is no evidence that anyone can point to at all. Anyone who says otherwise has no basis that any classified material ended up in the wrong hands

take classified materials very seriously and always have. When I was on the Senate armed service committee, I was privy to lots of classified material. Obviously as Secretary of State, I had some of the most important secrets that we possess, such as going after bin Laden. So I am very committed to taking classified information seriously. And, as I said, there is no evidence that any classified information ended up in the wrong hands.

DONALD TRUMP

9:31 PM

And yet she didn't know the letter “C” on a document. Right? She didn't even know what that word -- what that letter meant. You know, it's amazing. I'm watching Hillary go over facts. And she’s going after fact after fact. And she's lying again. Because she said she you know, what she did with the e-mails was fine. You think it was fine to delete 33,000 e-mails? I don't think so. She said that 33,000 e-mails had to do with her daughter's wedding, number one, and a yoga class. Well maybe we’ll give three or three or four or five or something. Thirty three thousand e-mails deleted, and now she is saying there wasn't anything wrong. And more importantly, that was after getting the subpoena. That wasn’t before that was after she got it from the United States Congress. And I’ll be honest. I am so disappointed in Congressmen, including Republicans, for allowing this to happen. Our Justice Department, where her husband goes to the back of an airplane for 30 minutes, talks to the Attorney General  days before a ruling on her case…

 But for you to say, that there is nothing wrong with you deleting  thirty nine thousand e-mails, again, you should be ashamed of yourself. What you did, and this is after getting a subpoena from the United States Congress.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:33 PM

We have to move on. Secretary Clinton you can respond and then we have to move.

DONALD TRUMP

9:33 PM

Let alone after getting the subpoena from the United States Congress.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:33 PM

Secretary Clinton you can respond, but we have to move on to an audience question.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:33 PM

Look, it's just not true. And so please go to -

ANDERSON COOPER

9:33 PM

Allow her to respond please.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:33 PM

Personal e-mails, not official. Well we turned over thirty five thousand so -

DONALD TRUMP

9:33 PM

What about the other fifteen thousand?

ANDERSON COOPER

9:33 PM

Please allow her to respond. She didn’t talk when you talked.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:33 PM

Yes, that's true I didn't.

DONALD TRUMP

That’s because you have nothing to say.

HILLARY CLINTON

I didn’t in the first debate. And I'm going to try not to in this debate because I would like to get to the questions that the people have brought here tonight to talk to us about.

DONALD TRUMP

9:33 PM

And get off this question.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:33 PM

Okay Donald, I know you are into big diversion tonight, anything to avoid talking about your campaign and the way it is exploding. And the way Republicans are leaving you. But let's at least focus on some of the issues that people care about tonight. Let's get to their questions.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:34 PM

We have a question here from Ken. Karpowitz. He has a question about healthcare. Ken?

DONALD TRUMP

9:34 PM

I'd like to know Anderson, why aren’t you bringing up the emails? I’d like to know. It hasn’t been finished at all.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:34 PM

Ken Karpowitz has a question.

DONALD TRUMP

9:34 PM

It's nice it's one on three.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

9:34 PM

Affordable Care Act, known as Obama care. It is not affordable. Premiums have gone up. Deductibles have gone up. Co-pays have gone up. Prescriptions have gone up. And the coverage has gone down. What will you do to bring the costs down and make coverage better?

ANDERSON COOPER

9:34 PM

That first one goes to Secretary Clinton because you started up the last one to the audience.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:35 PM

He wants to start, he can start. No go-ahead, Donald.

DONALD TRUMP

9:35 PM

No, I’m a gentleman. Hillary, go ahead.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:35 PM

Secretary Clinton?

HILLARY CLINTON

9:35 PM

Well, I think Donald was about to say he's going to solve it by repealing it. And getting rid of the Affordable Care Act. And I'm going to fix it because I agree with you. Premiums have gotten too high, co-pays, deductibles, prescription costs. And I have laid out a series of actions that we can take to try and get those costs down. But here’s what I don't want people to forget when we’re talking about reigning in the costs, which has to be the highest priority of the next president. When the Affordable Care Act passed, it wasn't just that twenty million people got insurance that did not have it before. But that in and of itself was a good thing. I meet these people all the time and they tell me what a difference having the insurance meant to them and their families. But everybody else, the one hundred and seventy million of us, who get health insurance through our employers, got big benefits. Number one, insurance companies can’t deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Number two, no lifetime limits, which is a big deal if you have serious health problems. Number three, women cannot be charged more than men for our health insurance, which is the way it used to be before the Affordable Care Act. Number four, if you are under 26 and your parents have a policy, you can be on that policy until the age of 26.

Something that did not happen before. So I want to very much to save what works and what is good about the affordable care act. But we have got to get costs down, we have to provide some additional help to small businesses so that they can afford to provide health insurance. But if we repeal it, as Donald has proposed, and start over again. All of those benefits I just mentioned are lost to everybody. Not just people who get their health insurance on the exchange, and then we would have to start all over again. Right now, we are at ninety percent health insurance coverage. That is the highest we have ever been in our country.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:37 PM

Secretary Clinton, your time is up.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:37 PM

So I want to ask to get to an hundred percent but get costs down and keep quality up.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:37 PM

Mr. Trump you have two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP

9:37 PM

It is such a great question, and it's maybe the question I get almost more than anything else. Outside of defense.  Obamacare is a disaster. You know it, we all know it. It is going up at numbers that nobody has ever seen worldwide. Nobody has ever seen numbers like this for health care. It is only getting worse. In seventeen, it implodes by itself.

Their method of fixing it is to go back and ask Congress for more money. More and more money. We have right now have almost twenty trillion dollars in debt. Obamacare will never work. It is very bad, very bad health insurance. Far too expensive, and not only expensive for the person that has it, unbelievably expensive for our country. It's going to be one of the biggest line items, very shortly.

We have to repeal it, and replace it with something absolutely much less expensive. And something that works. Where your plan can actually be tailored. We have to get rid of the lines around the state, artificial lines. Where we stop insurance companies from coming in and competing because they wanted President Obama and whoever was working on it. They want to leave those lines because that gives the insurance companies, essentially, monopolies.

We want competition. You will have the finest health care plan there is. She wants to go to a single-payer plan, which would be a disaster. Somewhat similar to Canada. And if you haven't noticed the Canadians, when they need a big operation, they come into the United States, in many cases. Because their system is so slow, it is catastrophic in certain ways. But she wants to go to single-payer.

Which means the government basically rules everything. Hillary Clinton has been after this for years. Obamacare was the first step. Obamacare is a total disaster. And not only are your rates going up by numbers that no one has ever believed, but your deductibles are going up. So that unless you get hit by a truck, you are never going to be able to use it. It is a disastrous plan and it has to be repealed and replaced.

DK

According to recent analyses from RAND and the Commonwealth Fund, Clinton’s plan could potentially cost much more than Trump’s -- hers could cost up to $90 billion, compared to his $41 billion. However, the analyses found that Clinton’s “would increase the number of insured individuals by 400,000 to 9.6 million, and decrease consumers’ health spending relative to current law.” Trump’s plan “would increase the number of uninsured individuals by 16 million to 25 million relative to the ACA,” and those increases would “disproportionately affect low-income individuals and those in poor health.”

ANDERSON COOPER

9:40 PM

Secretary Clinton let me follow up with you. Your husband called Obamacare “the craziest thing in the world”, saying that small business owners are getting killed as premiums double, coverage is cut in half. Was he mistaken or was his mistake simply telling the truth?

HILLARY CLINTON

9:40 PM

No, I mean he clarified what he meant. And it's very clear. I mean look, we are in a situation in our country where if we were to start all over again, we might come up with a different system. But we have an employer-based system. That's where the vast majority of people get their healthcare. And the Affordable Care Act was meant to try to fill the gap between people who were too poor, and couldn't put together any resources to afford health care, namely people on Medicaid, obviously Medicare, which is a single-payer system, which takes care of our elderly and does a great great job doing it, by the way. And then all the people who were employed and people who were working but didn't have the money to afford insurance and didn't have anybody, an employer or anybody else, to help them. That was the slot that the Obamacare approach was to take.

And like I say, 20 million people now have health insurance.

So if we just rip it up and throw it away, what Donald is not telling you is, we just turn it back to the insurance companies the way it used to be. And that means the insurance companies get to do pretty much whatever they want, including saying, look, I’m sorry you got diabetes, you had cancer, your child has asthma, you may not be able to have insurance because you can’t afford it. So let's fix what is broken about it, but let's not throw it away. And give it all back to the insurance companies.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:41 PM

But let me follow up with you on this, Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

9:41 PM

Just one thing. First of all Hillary, everything is broken about it. Everything. Number two, Bernie Sanders said that Hillary Clinton has very bad judgment. This is a perfect example of it. Trying to save Obamacare which is-

ANDERSON COOPER

9:42 PM

Mr. Trump you have said you want to end Obamacare. You have also said that you and make coverage accessible for people with pre-existing conditions. How do you force insurance companies to do that if you are no longer mandating that everybody has insurance? What does that mean?

DONALD TRUMP

9:42 PM

Well I'll tell you what it means. You’re going to have plans that are so good. Because we are going to have so much competition in the insurance industry, once we break out the lines and allow the competition to come.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:42 PM

Are going to have a mandate that Americans have to have health insurance?

DONALD TRUMP

9:42 PM

Anderson, excuse me. President Obama, by keeping those lines, the boundary lines around each state, and it was almost gone until just very toward the end of the passage of Obamacare, which by the way was a fraud. You know that. Because Jonathan Gruber, the architect of Obamacare has said, he said it was a great lie was a big lie. President Obama said you keep your doctor,  you keep your plan. The whole thing was a fraud. And it doesn't work.

But when we get rid of those lines you will have competition. 

And we will be able to keep pre-existing. We’ll also be able to help people who can't get, don't have money. Because we are going to have people protected. And Republicans feel this way, believe it or not, and strongly this way. We are going to block grant into the state. We are going to block grant into Medicaid.

ANDERSON COOPER

9:43 PM

Thank you, Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

9:43 PM

Into the states so that will be able to take care of people without the necessary funds to take care of themselves.

MARTHA RADDATZ

We now go to Gorba Hameed, with a question for both candidates.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

9:43 PM

There are 3.3 million Muslims in the United States and I'm one of them. You’ve mentioned working with Muslim nations but with Islamophobia on the rise, how will you help people like me deal with the consequences of being labeled as a threat to the country after the election is over?

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:43 PM

Mr. Trump, you’re first.

DONALD TRUMP

9:44 PM

Well, you're right about Islamophobia, and that's a shame. But one thing we have to do is we have to make sure that because there is a problem. I mean whether we like it or not we can be very politically correct but whether we like it or not there is a problem and we have to be sure that Muslims come in and report when they see something going on when they see hatred going on they have report it. As an example, in San Bernardino, many people saw the bombs all over the apartment of the two people that killed fourteen and wounded many many people. Horribly wounded; they’ll never be the same.

Muslims have to report the problems when they see them. And you know there's always a reason for everything. If they don't do that, it's a very difficult situation for our country. Because you look at Orlando and you look at San Bernardino and you look at the World Trade Center go outside you look at Paris look at the horrible - these are radical Islamic terrorists and she won't even mention the word and nor will President Obama. He will use the term radical Islamic terrorism. Now to solve a problem you have to be able to state what the problem is or at least say the name. She won't say the name and President Obama won't say the name but the name is there. It’s radical Islamic terror. And before you solve it, you have to say the name.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:45 PM

Secretary Clinton.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:45 PM

Well thank you for asking your question and I have heard this question from a lot of Muslim Americans across our country. Because unfortunately there has been a lot of very divisive, dark things said about Muslims and even someone like Captain Khan, the young man who sacrificed himself defending our country in the United States Army has been subject to attack by Donald.

I want to say just a couple of things. First we’ve had Muslims in America since George Washington. 

And we’ve had many successful Muslims. We just lost a particularly well-known one with Muhammad Ali. My vision of America is an America where everyone has a place if you're willing to work hard, you do your part, you contribute to the community -- that's what America is, that's what we want America to be for children and our grandchildren. It’s also very shortsighted and even dangerous to be engaging in the kind of demagogic rhetoric that Donald has about Muslims. We need American Muslims to be part of our eyes and ears on our front lines. I've worked with a lot of different Muslim groups around America. I've met with a lot of them and I've heard how important it is for them to feel that they are wanted and included and part of our country, part of our homeland security, and that's what I want to see. It's also important I intend and tend to defeat ISIS to do so in a coalition with majority Muslim nations. Right now a lot of those nations are hearing what Donald says and wondering, “Why should we cooperate with the Americans,” and this is a gift to ISIS and the terrorists. Violent jihadist terrorists. We are not at war with Islam and it is a mistake and it plays into the hands of the terrorists to act as though we are. So I want a country where citizens like you and your family are just as welcome as anyone else.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:48 PM

Thank you Secretary Clinton. Mr. Trump in December you said: “Donald J Trump was calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. We have no choice. We have no choice.” Your running mate said this week that the Muslim ban is no longer your position. Is that correct and if it is, was a mistake to have a religious test?

DONALD TRUMP

9:48 PM

First of all, Captain Khan is an American hero. And if I were president at that time, he would be alive today, because unlike her, who voted for the war without knowing what she was doing, I would not have had our people in Iraq. Iraq was a disaster. So he would have been alive today. The Muslim ban is something that in some form has morphed into an extreme vetting from certain areas of the world. Hillary Clinton wants to allow hundreds of thousands --  

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:49 PM

And why did it morph into that? No answer the question. Do you still believe.

DONALD TRUMP

9:49 PM

Why don’t you interrupt her?

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:49 PM

Would you please explain whether or not the Muslim ban still stands?

DONALD TRUMP

9:49 PM

It's called extreme vetting. We are going to areas like Syria, where they're coming in by the tens of thousands because of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton wants to allow a 550% increase over Obama. People are coming into our country like we have no idea who they are where they're from what their feelings about our country is and she wants 550% more. This is going to be the great Trojan horse of all time.

We have enough problems in this country. I believe in building safe zones. I believe in having other people pay for them, as an example, the Gulf States who are not carrying their weight, but they have nothing but money. And take care of people. But I don't want to have with all the problems this country has and all of the problems thatyou see going on hundreds of thousands of people coming in from Syria when we know nothing about them, we know nothing about their values, and we know nothing about their love for our country.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:50 PM

And Secretary Clinton let me ask you about that. Because you have asked for an increase from ten to sixty five thousand Syrian refugees. We know you want tougher vetting. That's not a perfect system so why take the risk of having those refugees coming into the country?

HILLARY CLINTON

9:50 PM

Well, first of all I will not let anyone into our country that I think poses a risk to us. But there are a lot of refugees- women and children - think of that picture we also that four-year-old boy with the blood on his forehead because he'd been bombed by the Russian and Syrian air forces. There are children suffering in this catastrophic war, largely I believe, because of Russian aggression. And we need to do our part. We by no means are carrying anywhere near the load that Europe and others are.

But we will have vetting that is as tough as it needs to be from our professionals, our intelligence experts, and others. But it is important for us as a policy not to say as Donald has said, we’re going to ban people based on a religion. How do you do that? We are country founded on religious freedom and liberty. How do we do what he has advocated without causing great distress within our own country? Are we going to have religious tests when people fly into our country? And how do we expect to be able to implement those? So I thought that what he said was extremely unwise and even dangerous and indeed you can look at the propaganda on a lot of the terrorist sites and what Donald Trump says about Muslims is used to recruit fighters because they want to create a war between us. And the final thing I will say this is the tenth or twelfth time that he has denied being for the war in Iraq. We have it on tape. The entire press corps has looked at it. It's been debunked but it never stops him from saying whatever he wants to say.

DONALD TRUMP

9:53 PM

It has not been debunked.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:53 PM

So please. Go to HillaryClinton.com and you can see it.

DONALD TRUMP

9:53 PM

I was against the war in Iraq

Has not been debunked. And you voted for it and you shouldn't have. Well I just want to say.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:53 PM

There's been lots of fact checking on that. I’d like to move on to an online question.

DONALD TRUMP

9:53 PM

Excuse me. She just went about twenty five seconds over her time.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:53 PM

She did not.

DONALD TRUMP

9:53 PM

Can I just respond to this please?

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:53 PM

Very quickly please.

DONALD TRUMP

9:53 PM

Hillary Clinton in terms of having people coming to our country we have many criminal illegal aliens. When we want to send them back to their country their country says we don't want them in some cases they’re murderers, drug lords, drug problems. And they don't want them. And Hillary Clinton when she was Secretary of State said that's okay. We can't force it into their country.

Let me tell you I'm going to force them right back into the country. They’re murderers and some very bad people and I will tell you, I'm very strongly, when Bernie Sanders said she had bad judgment she has really bad judgment because we are letting people into this country that are going to cause problems and crime like you've never seen. We’re also leading drugs pour through our southern border at a record clip. At a record clip and it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

ICE just endorsed me. They've never endorsed a  presidential candidate.

The border patrol agents, sixteen thousand five hundred just recently endorsed me. And they endorsed me because I understand the border. She doesn't. She wants amnesty for everybody, Come right in come right over. It’s a horrible thing she's doing. She's got bad judgment and honestly so bad that she should never be president of the United States. That I can tell you.

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:54 PM

Thank you, Mr. Trump. I want to move on. This next question comes from the public through the bipartisan open debate coalitions online form where Americans submitted questions that generated millions of votes. This question involves Wikileaks release of reported excerpts as Secretary Clinton paid speeches which she has refused to release and one line in particular in which you, Secretary Clinton, reportedly say you need both a public and private position on certain issues. So Tiu from Virginia asks is okay for politicians to be two-faced? Is it acceptable for a politician to have a private stance on issues? Secretary Clinton, your two minutes.

HILLARY CLINTON

9:55 PM

Well, as I recall, that was something I said about Abraham Lincoln after having seen the wonderful Steven Spielberg movie called Lincoln. It was a master class watching President Lincoln get the Congress to approve the 13th amendment. It was principled and it was strategic.

And I was making the point that it is hard sometimes to get the Congress to do what you want to do and you have to keep working at it and yes, President Lincoln was trying to convince some people, he used some arguments, convincing other people, he used other arguments. That was a great -- I thought a great display of presidential leadership.

But you know, let's talk about what's really going on here Martha, because our intelligence community just came out and said in the last few days that the Kremlin, meaning Putin and the Russian government, are directing the attacks, the hacking on American accounts, to influence our election. And WikiLeaks is part of that as our other sites, where the Russians hack information, we don't even know it's accurate information, and then they put it out.

We have never in the history of our country been in a situation where an adversary, a foreign power, is working so hard to influence the outcome of the election, and believe me, they’re not doing it to get me elected. They're doing it to try to influence the election for Donald Trump.

Now maybe because he has praised Putin, maybe because he says he agrees with a lot of what Putin wants to do, maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow -- I don't know the reasons that we deserve answers. And we should demand that Trump release all of his tax returns so that people can see what are the entanglements and the financial relationships --

MARTHA RADDATZ

9:58 PM

And we’re going to get to that later. Secretary Clinton, you're out of time. Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

9:58 PM

Well, I think I should respond because, so ridiculous. Look, now she's blaming -she got caught in a total lie her papers went out to all her friends at the banks, Goldman Sachs and everybody else, and she said things WikiLeaks that just came out and she lied.

Now she's blaming the lie on the late great Abraham Lincoln. That's one that I haven’t - okay Honest Abe never lied. That’s the good thing that's a big difference between Abraham Lincoln and you. That's a big big difference we're talking about some difference. But as far as other elements of what she was saying I don't know Putin. I think would be great if we got along with Russia because we could fight ISIS together as an example. But I don't know Putin. But I notice anytime anything wrong happens they like to say the Russians we don't know if it's Russian.

She doesn’t know if it’s the Russians doing the hacking, maybe there is no hacking. But they always blame Russia and the reason they blame Russia because they think they are trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know nothing about Russia. I know, I know about Russia but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia.

I don't deal there, I have no businesses there have no loans from Russia.

Have a very very great balance sheet, so great that when I did the old post office on Pennsylvania Avenue, the United States government because of my balance sheet, which they actually know very well, chose me to do the old post office between the White House and Congress, chose me to do the old post office one of the primary things in fact perhaps the primary thing was balance sheet.

But I have no loans with Russia you could go to the United States government and they would probably tell you that because they know my sheet very well in order to get that development I had to have -- now the taxes are very simple thing. As soon as -- first of all, I pay hundred of millions of dollars in taxes. Many of her friends took bigger deductions. Warren Buffett took a massive deduction. Soros, who is a friend of hers, took a massive deduction. Many of the people that are giving her all this money that she could do many more commercials than me gave her took massive deductions. I pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes but but as soon as my routine audit is finished, I'll release my returns I'll be very proud to.They’re actually quite good.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:00 PM

Thank you, Mr. Trump.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:00 PM

We’re going to turn to the topic of taxes we have a question from Spencer Moss. Spencer?

AUDIENCE MEMBER

10:00 PM

Good evening. My question is -- what specific tax provisions would you change to ensure the wealthiest Americans pay their fair share in taxes.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:01 PM

Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP

10:01 PM

Well, one thing I’d do is get rid of carried interest. One of the greatest provisions, for people like me, to be honest with you -- I give up a lot when I run because I knock out the tax code. And she could have done this years ago, by the way. She’s a United States -- she was a United States senator. She complains that Donald Trump took advantage of the tax cut. Well, why didn't she change it? Why didn’t you change it when you were Senator? The reason you didn’t that all your friends take the same advantage that I do. But I do.

You have provisions in the tax code that, frankly, we could change. But you wouldn't change it because all of these people give you the money so you can take negative ads on Donald Trump. But -- and I say that about a lot of things. You know, I've heard Hillary complain about so many different things over the years -- she’s been doing this stuff -- but she's been there for thirty years she’s been doing this stuff. And she never will change. She never will change. And she never will change.

We’re getting rid of carried interest provisions. I'm lowering taxes actually because I think it's so important for corporations because we have corporations leaving -- massive corporations and little ones -- little ones can’t form. We’re getting rid of regulations which goes hand in hand with the lowering of the taxes. But we're bringing the tax rate down from thirty five percent to fifteen percent. We’re cutting taxes for the middle class, and I will tell you, we are cutting them big league for the middle class. And I will tell you Hillary Clinton is raising your taxes, folks. 

You can look at me -- she is raising your taxes really high. And what that's going to do is a disaster for the country. But she is raising your taxes, and I'm lowering your taxes. That in itself is a big difference. We are going to be thriving again. We have no growth in this country. There is no growth. 

If China has a GDP of seven percent, it’s like a national catastrophe. We’re down at one percent, and that’s like no growth. And we're going lower, in my opinion. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that our taxes are so high. Just about the highest in the world. And I'm bringing them down to one of the lower in the world. And I think it's so important, one of the most important things we can do. But she is raising everybody's taxes massively.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:03 PM

Secretary Clinton, you have two minutes. The question was, what specific tax revisions would change to ensure the wealthiest Americans pay their fair share of taxes?

HILLARY CLINTON

10:03 PM

Well everything you've heard just now from Donald is not true. I'm sorry I have to keep saying this, but he lives in an alternative reality. And it is sort of amusing to hear somebody who hasn't paid federal income taxes in maybe 20 years talk about what he's going to do.

But I’ll tell you what he's going to do. His plan will give the wealthy and corporations the biggest tax cuts they've ever had. More than the Bush tax cuts by at least a factor of two. Donald always takes cares of Donald and people like Donald. And this would be a massive gift.

And indeed, the way that he talks about his tax cuts would end up raising taxes on middle-class families, millions of middle-class families. Now here's what I want to do. I have said nobody who makes less than two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year -- and that is the vast majority of Americans, as you know, will have their taxes raised because I think we have got to go with the money is. And the money is with people who have taken advantage of every single break in the tax code. And yes, when I was a senator, I did vote to close corporate loopholes. I voted to close, I think, one of the loopholes he took advantage of what he claimed a billion dollar loss that enabled him to avoid paying taxes. I want to have a tax on people who are making a million dollars. It’s called the Buffett rule -- yes, Warren Buffett is the one who has gone out and said somebody like him did not repent a lower tax rate than his secretary. I want to have a surcharge on incomes above five million. We have to make up for lost time because I want to invest in you. I want to invest in hard-working families, and I think it's been unfortunate. But it’s happened that since the great recession, the gains have all gone to the top. And we need to reverse that. People like Donald who paid zero in taxes, zero for our vets, zero for our military, zero for health and education -- that is wrong. And we’re going to make sure that nobody -- no corporation and no individual -- can get away without paying his fare share to support our country.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:06 PM

Mr. Trump, to give you a chance to respond. I just want to give our viewers what she's referring to. In the last month, the taxes were the number one issue on Facebook for the first time in the campaign. The New York Times published three pages of your 1995 tax returns. They showed you claimed a $916 million loss, which means you could have avoided paying personal federal income taxes for years. You’ve said you pay state tax, employee taxes, real estate taxes, property taxes... You not answered, though, a simple question. Did you use that $916 dollar loss to avoid paying federal income taxes.

DONALD TRUMP

10:06 PM

Of course I do. And so do all of her donors, or most of her donors. I know many of her donors. Her donors took massive tax write-offs. A lot of my write-off was depreciation and other things that Hillary, as a Senator, allowed. And she’ll always allow it because the people that give her all this money, they want it. That's why. See, I understand the tax code better than anybody that’s ever run for president. Hillary Clinton -- and it’s extremely complex -- Hillary Clinton has friends that want all of these provisions, including they want the carried interest provision, which is very important to Wall Street people. But they really want the carried interest provision, which I believe Hillary is leaving.

And very interesting why she’s leaving carried interests, but I will tell you that number one I pay tremendous numbers of taxes. I absolutely use it, and so did Warren Buffett. And so did George Soros and so did many of the other people that Hillary is getting money from. Now I won't mention their names because they're rich, but they’re not famous. So we won't make them famous.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:07 PM

Can you say how many years you have avoided paying personal federal income taxes?

DONALD TRUMP

10:07 PM

No. But I pay tax, and I pay federal tax too. But I have a write-off. A lot of it is depreciation, which is a wonderful charge. I love depreciation. You know, she’s given it to us.

Hey, if she had a problem -- for thirty years, she’s been doing this Anderson. I say it all the time. She talks about healthcare. Why didn’t she do something about it? She talks about taxes. Why didn't she do something about it? She doesn't do anything about anything other than talk. With her, it's all talk and no action.

And again, Bernie Sanders -- it's really bad judgment. She has made bad judgment, not only on taxes. She had made bad judgments on Libya, on Syria, on Iraq. I mean, her and Obama, whether you like it or not, the way they got out of Iraq, vacuum they've left -- that's why ISIS is formed in the first place.

They started from that little area. And now they're in thirty two different nations. Congratulations. Great job.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:08 PM

Secretary Clinton. I want you to be able to respond, Secretary Clinton.

HILLARY CLINTON

10:08 PM

Well, here we go again. I’ve been in favor of getting rid of carried interest for years. Starting when I was a senator from New York. But that’s not the point here.

DONALD TRUMP

10:09 PM

Why didn’t you do it? Why didn’t you do it?

ANDERSON COOPER

Allow her to respond.

HILLARY CLINTON

10:09 PM

Because I was senator with a Republican president. I'll will be the president who will get it done.

(APPLAUSE)

HILLARY CLINTON

10:09 PM

DONALD TRUMP

10:09 PM

If you were an effective senator, you could have done it. If you were an effective senator, you could have done it. But you were not an effective senator.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:09 PM

Please allow her to respond. She didn’t interrupt you.

HILLARY CLINTON

10:09 PM

You know, under our Constitution, presidents have something called veto power. Look, he has now said repeatedly thirty years this and thirty years that. So let me talk about my thirty years in public service. I'm very glad to do so.

Eight million kids every year have health insurance because when I was first lady, I worked with Democrats and Republicans to create the children's health insurance program. Hundreds of thousands of kids now have a chance to be adopted because I worked to change our adoption and foster care system. After 9/11, I went to work with Republican mayor, governor and president to rebuild New York and to get healthcare for our first responders who were suffering because they had a run toward danger and gotten sickened by it. Hundreds of thousands of National Guard and reserve members have healthcare because of work that I did. And children have safer medicines because I was able to pass a law that required the dosing to be more carefully done.

When I was secretary of state, I went around the world, advocating for our country but also advocating for women's rights, to make sure that women had a decent chance to have a better life, and negotiated a treaty with Russia to lower nuclear weapons.

Four hundred pieces of legislation have my name on it, as a sponsor or cosponsor when I was a senator for eight years. I worked very hard and was very proud to be reelected in New York by an even bigger margin than I had been elected the first time. And as president, I will take that work, that bipartisan work, that finding common ground, because you have to be able to get along with people to get things done in Washington.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:11 PM

Thank you, Secretary.

HILLARY CLINTON

10:11 PM

And I have proven that I can. And for thirty years, I’ve produced results for people.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:11 PM

We’re going to move on to Syria. Both of you have mentioned that.

DONALD TRUMP

10:11 PM

She said a lot of things that were false. I think we should be allowed to -

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:11 PM

Mr. Trump, we’re going to go on. This is about the audience. Mr. Trump, we’re going to move on. The heartbreaking video of a five -year-old Syrian boy named Omran sitting in an ambulance after being pulled from the rubble after an airstrike in Aleppo, focused the world’s attention on the horrors of the war in Syria, with 136 million views on Facebook alone.

But there are much worse images coming out of Aleppo every day now where the past few weeks alone four hundred people have been killed, at least one hundred of them children. Just days ago, the State Department called for a war crimes investigation of the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad and its allies Russia for the bombardment of Aleppo. So this next question comes from social media through Facebook. Diana from Pennsylvania asked, if you were president, what would you do about Syria and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo? Isn't it a lot like the Holocaust when the U.S. waited too long before we helped? Secretary Clinton, we will begin with your two minutes.

HILLARY CLINTON

10:12 PM

Well, the situation in Syria is catastrophic. And every day that goes by, we see the results of the regime by Assad in partnership with the Iranians on the ground, the Russians in the air, bombarding places, in particular Aleppo, where there are hundreds of thousands of people, probably about 250,000 still left. And there is a determined effort by the Russian Air Force to destroy Aleppo in order to eliminate the last of the Syrian rebels who are really holding out against the Assad regime. Russia hasn't paid anything to ISIS. They’re interested in keeping Assad in power. So I, wehn I was Secretary of State, advocated. An advocate today a no-fly zone in safe zones.

We need some leverage with the Russians because they're not going to come to the negotiating table for a diplomatic resolution unless there is some leverage over them. And we have to work more closely with our partners and allies on the ground. But I want to emphasize that what is at stake here is the ambitions and the aggressiveness of Russia.

Russia has decided that it's all in in Syria. And they also decided who they want to see become president of the United States, too. And it's not me. I've stood up to Russia. I've taken on pollutant and others. And I would do that as president. I think wherever we can cooperate with Russia, that's fine. And I did at Secretary of State, that’s how we got a treaty reducing nuclear weapons. Is how we got the sanctions on Iran that put a lid on the Iranian nuclear program without firing a single shot. So I would go to the negotiating table with more levers that we have now. But I do support the effort to investigate for crimes -- war crimes committed by the Syrians and the Russians and try to hold them accountable.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:15 PM

Thank You, Secretary Clinton. Mr Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

10:15 PM

First of all, she was there as the secretary of state with the so called line in the sand.

HILLARY CLINTON

No, I wasn’t. I was gone. I hate to interrupt you but at some point, we need to do some fact checking.

DONALD TRUMP

Excuse me. You were in total contact with the White House. And perhaps, sadly Obama probably still listened to you. I don't think he would be listening to you very much anymore. Obama draws the line in the sand, it was laughed at all over the world what happened. Now with that being said, she talks tough against Russia. But our nuclear program has fallen way behind. And they have gone wild with their nuclear program. Not good. Our government should not have allowed that to happen. Russia is new in terms of nuclear. We are old. We are tired. We are exhausted in terms of nuclear. A very bad thing. Now, she talks tough against Putin. And against Assad. She talks in favor of the rebels. She doesn’t even know who the rebels are. Every time we take rebels. Whether it's in Iraq or anywhere else. We are arming people. You know what happens, they end up being worse than the people. Look what she did and Libya with Gaddafi. Gadhafi is out. It’s a mess. And by the way ISIS has a good chunk of their oil. I’m sure you probably have heard that. It was a disaster. Because the fact is that everything that she has done an foreign-policy has been at the stake and it has a been a disaster. And if you look at Russia -- is take a look at Russia and look at what they did this week. Where I agree she was not there, but possibly she was consulted. We sign a peace treaty, everyone's all excited. Well what Russia did with Assad, and by the way with Iran who made very powerful with the dumbest deal I have, perhaps seen in the history of dealmaking with the Iran deal. With the 1.7 in cash, is enough cash to fill this room. 

But look at that deal. Iran now and Russia are now against us. So she wants to fight, she wants to fight for rebels. There’s only one problem. You don’t even know who the rebels are.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:17 PM

Mr. Trump your two minutes is up.

DONALD TRUMP

10:17 PM

And one thing I have to say is I don't like Assad at all. But Assad is killing ISIS. Russia is killing ISIS. And Iran is killing ISIS. And those three have now lined up because of our weak foreign policy.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:17 PM

Mr.Trump, let me repeat the question. If you were president, what would you do about Syria and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo. And I want to remind you what your running mate said. He said provocations by Russian need to be met with American strength and that if Russia continues to be involved with airstrikes along with the Syrian government forces of Assad, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike the military targets, of the Assad regime.

DONALD TRUMP

10:18 PM

Okay. He and I haven’t spoken and I disagree.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:18 PM

You disagree with your running mate?

DONALD TRUMP

10:18 PM

We have to knock out ISIS. Right now Syria's fighting ISIS. We have people that want to fight both at the same. But Syria's no longer Syria. Syria’s Russia and it’s Iran which she made strong, and Kerry, and Obama made into a very powerful nation. And a very rich nation. Very, very quickly. I believe we have to get ISIS. We have to worry about ISIS before we can get too much more involved. She had a chance to do something with Syria. They had a chance and that was the line.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:19 PM

What do you think will happen if Aleppo falls?

DONALD TRUMP

10:19 PM

I think Aleppo is a disaster humanitarian-wise.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:19 PM

What do you think it will happen if it falls?

DONALD TRUMP

10:19 PM

I think that it basically has fallen. OK? It basically has fallen.

Let me tell you something, you take a look at <>. The biggest problem I have with the stupidity of our foreign policy is. We have Mosul. They think a lot of the ISIS leaders are in Mosul. So we have a lot of announcements coming out of Washington and coming out of Iraq, we will be attacking Mosul in three weeks or four weeks. All of these bad leaders from ISIS are leaving Mosul. Why can't they do it quietly why can't they do the attack, make it a sneak attack. After the attack is made, inform the American public that we have knocked out the leaders, we’ve had tremendous success. People leave. Why do they have to say we're going to be attacking Mosul within the next four to six weeks? Which is what they are saying. How stupid is our country?

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:20 PM

There are sometimes reasons the military does that. Psychological warfare.

DONALD TRUMP

10:20 PM

I can't think of any.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:20 PM

It might be to help get civilians out.

DONALD TRUMP

10:20 PM

Look, I have two hundred generals and admirals who endorsed me. I have twenty one Congressional medal of honor recipients who endorsed me. We talk about it all the time. They understand why can't they do something secretively? Where they go in and they knock out the leadership. How -- why would these people stay there? I’ve been reading now for weeks...

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:20 PM

Tell me what your strategy is.

DONALD TRUMP

10:20 PM

I have a reading for weeks about Mosul that is the harbor between Raqqa and Mosul. This is where they think the ISIS leaders are.

Why would they be - they’re not staying there anymore! They are gone. Because everybody is talking about how Iraq, which is us with our leadership goes in to fight Mosul. With these two hundred admirals and generals, they can't believe it. All they say is this. General George Patton, General Douglas Macarthur are spinning in their grave at the stupidity of what we're doing in the Middle East.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:21 PM

I'm going to go to Secretary Clinton. Secretary Clinton, you want Assad to go. You advocated arming rebels, but it looks like that may be too late for Aleppo.

You talk about diplomatic efforts, those have failed. Ceasefires have failed. Would you introduce the threat of U.S. military force beyond the no-fly zone against the Assad regime, to back up diplomacy?

HILLARY CLINTON

10:21 PM

I would not use American ground forces in Syria. I think that would be a very serious mistake. I don't think American troops should be holding territory, which is what they would have to do as an occupying force. I don't think that is a smart strategy. I do think the use of special forces, which we're using, the use of enablers and trainers in Iraq, which has had some positive effects, are very much in our interest. And so I do support what is happening. But let me --

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:22 PM

So what would you do differently than the President Obama is doing?

HILLARY CLINTON

10:22 PM

Well, Martha, I hope that by the time I -- hope by the time I am president that we will have pushed ISIS out of Iraq. I do think that there is a good chance that we can take Mosul. And you know Donald says he knows more about ISIS than the generals. No, he doesn't. There are a lot of very important planning going on. And some of it is to signal to the Sunnis in the area, as well as Kurdish fighters that we all need to be in this. And that takes a lot of planning and preparation. I would go after Baghdadi. I would specifically target Baghdadi because I think our targeting of Al Qaeda leaders, I was involved in a lot of those operations, highly classified ones, made a difference. So I think that could help. I would also consider arming the Kurds. The Kurds have been our best partners in Syria, as well as Iraq. And I know there is a lot of concern about that in some circles, but I think that they should have the equipment they need so that the needs of Kurdish and Arab fighters on the ground are the principal way that we take Rocco after pushing ISIS out of Iraq.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:23 PM

Thank you very much, we're going to move on.

DONALD TRUMP

10:23 PM

She went over a minute over, and you don't stop her. When I go one second over it's like -

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:24 PM

You had many answers.

DONALD TRUMP

It’s really very interesting.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:24 PM

We have a question over here from James Carter. Mr. Carter?

AUDIENCE MEMBER

10:24 PM

My question, do you believe you can be a devoted president to all the people in the United States?

ANDERSON COOPER

10:24 PM

The question begins for Mister Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

10:24 PM

Absolutely. I mean, uh,  she calls our people deplorable, a large group. And irredeemable. I will be a president for all of our people. And I will be a president that will turn our inner cities around. And will give strength to people. And will give economics to people. And will bring jobs back because NAFTA, signed by her husband, is perhaps the greatest disaster trade deal in the history of the world. 

Not in this country. It stripped us of manufacturing jobs. We lost our jobs, we lost our money. We lost our plans. It is a disaster. And now she wants to sign TPP even though she says now she is for it. She called it the gold standard by the way at the last debate she lied because it turned out that she did say that it was the gold standard and she said that she didn't say it. They actually said that she lied. Okay. And she lied, but she's lied about a lot of things. I would be a president for all of the people.

African-Americans. The inner cities. Devastating what's happening to our inner cities. She's been talking about it for years. As usual, she talks about it, nothing happens. She doesn't get it done.

The same with the Latino Americans. The Hispanic Americans. The same exact thing, they talk, they don't get it done. You go into the inner cities and you see there's forty five percent poverty, African-Americans have forty five percent poverty in the inner cities. The education is a disaster. Jobs are essentially nonexistent. I mean, it is -- you know and I have been saying it in big speeches where I have twenty and thirty thousand people what do you have to lose? It can't get any worse. And she has been talking about the inner cities for twenty five years. Nothing is going to ever happen.

Let me tell you, if she is president of the United States nothing is going to happen. Is going to be all talk, all of her friends, taxes we were talking, and I would just get it by osmosis, it’s not doing me any favors, but by doing all the others favor she would be doing me favors. But I will tell you, she is all talk, doesn't get done. All you have to do is look at the Senate run, take a look at upstate New York.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:26 PM

You two minutes is up. Secretary Clinton?

DONALD TRUMP

10:26 PM

It turned out to be a disaster.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:27 PM

You have two minutes Secretary Clinton.

HILLARY CLINTON

10:27 PM

Well, 67% of the people voted to reelect me when I ran for my second term. And I was very proud and very humbled by that. Mr. Carter, I have tried my entire life, to do what I can to support children and families. You know, right out of law school I went to work for the Children's Defense Fund. And Donald talks a lot about, you know, the thirty years I've been in public service. I am proud of that. You know, I started off as a young lawyer working against discrimination against African-American children in schools and in the criminal justice system. I worked to make sure that kids with disabilities could get a public education. Something that I care very much about. I have worked with Latinos, one of my first jobs in politics was down in South Texas registering Latino citizens to be able to vote.

So I have a deep devotion to use your absolutely correct word. To making sure that every American feels like he or she has a place in our country. And, I think when you look at the letters that I get, a lot of people are worried that maybe they wouldn't have a place in Donald Trump's America. They write me -- woman wrote me about her son Felix, he adopted him from Ethiopia when he was a toddler. He is ten years old now. This is the only country he has ever known. And he listens to Donald on TV and he said to his mother one day, will he send me back to Ethiopia if he gets elected? You know, children listen to what is being said, to go back to the very, very first question. And there is a lot of fear; in fact, teachers and parents are calling it the Trump effect. Bullying is up, a lot of people are feeling, you know, uneasy, a lot of kids are expressing their concerns.

So first and foremost, I will do everything I can to reach out to everybody. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, people across our country. If you don't vote for me, I still want to be your President. I want to be the best President I can be for every American.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:30 PM

Secretary Clinton, your two minutes are up. I want to follow up on something that Donald Trump actually said to you, a comment you made last month. You said that half of Donald Trump’s supporters are “deplorables.” Racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic. You later said you regretted saying half. You didn’t express regret for using the term “deplorables.” To Mr. Carter’s question, how can you unite a country if you’ve written off tens of millions of Americans?

HILLARY CLINTON

10:30 PM

Well, within hours I said that I was sorry about the way I talked about that because my argument is not with his supporters, it’s with him. And the hateful and the divisive campaign that he has run. And the inciting of violence at his rallies. And the very brutal kinds of comments not about just women but all Americans. All kinds of Americans. And what he has said about African Americans and Latinos, about Muslims, about POWs, about immigrants, about people with disabilities, he’s never apologized for. And so I do think that a lot of the tone and tenor that he’s said - I’m proud of the campaign that Bernie Sanders and I ran. We ran a campaign on issues, not insults. And he is supporting me 100 percent, because we talked about what we wanted to do. We might’ve had some differences and we had a lot of debates, but we believe that we can come to better. I was proud of that.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:31 PM

I’m going to give you a minute to respond.

DONALD TRUMP

10:31 PM

We have a divided nation. We have a very divided nation. You look at Charlotte. You look at Baltimore. You look at the violence that's taking place in the inner cities, Chicago. You take a look at Washington, D.C. We have a increase in murder within our cities, the biggest in forty five years

We have a divided nation because people like her -- and believe me, she has tremendous hate in her heart. And when she said deplorables, she meant it. And when she said irredeemable -- they’re irredeemable, you didn’t mention that. But when she said their irredeemable, to me, that might have been even worse.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:31 PM

She said some of them are irredeemable --

DONALD TRUMP

10:31 PM

She's got tremendous hatred. And this country cannot take another four years of Barack Obama. And that's what you're getting with her.

ANDERSON COOPER

10:31 PM

Mr. Trump, let me follow up with you. In 2008, you wrote in one of your books that the most important characteristic of a good leader is discipline. You said if the leader doesn't have it, he or she won't be one for very long. In the days after the first debate, he sent out a series of tweets from 3 a.m. to 5 a.m., including one that told people to check out a sex tape. Is that the discipline of a good leader?

DONALD TRUMP

10:32 PM

No, there wasn’t check out a sex tape. 

It was just take a look at the person that she built up to be this wonderful Girl Scout, who was no Girl Scout.

ANDERSON COOPER

You mentioned a sex tape.

DONALD TRUMP

By the way -- just so you understand -- when she said three o’clock in the morning take a look at Benghazi.

She said who’s going to answer the call at 3am in the morning? Guess what? She didn’t answer because when Ambassador Stevens --

ANDERSON COOPER

The question is that the discipline of a good leader?

DONALD TRUMP

She said she was awake at 3 o’clock in the morning and she also sent a tweet out at three o’clock in the morning. Guess what happened? Ambassador Stevens -  Ambassador Stevens sent six hundred requests for help and the only one she talked to was Sidney Blumenthal, who’s her friend, and not a good guy by the way. So, you know, she shouldn’t be talking about that. Now, tweeting happens to be a modern-day form of communication. I mean you can like it or not like it. I have, between Facebook and Twitter I have almost 25 million people. It’s a very effective way of communication. So you can put it down but it is a very effective form of communication. I’m not unproud of it, to be honest with you.

ANDERSON COOPER

Secretary Clinton, does Mr. Trump have the discipline to be a good leader?

HILLARY CLINTON

No.

DONALD TRUMP

I’m shocked to hear that.

HILLARY CLINTON

Well, it’s not just my opinion, it’s the opinion of many others, national security experts, Republicans, former Republican members of Congress. But it’s in part because those of us who have had the great privilege of seeing this job up close, and know how difficult it is, and it’s not just because I watched my husband take a 300 billion dollar deficit and turn it into a 200 billion surplus and 23 million new jobs were created and incomes went up for everybody. Everybody. African American incomes went up 33 percent.

And it’s not just because I worked with George W. Bush after 9/11. And I was very proud that when I told him what the city needed, what we need to recover, he said you’ve got it, and he never wavered. He stuck with me. And I have worked, and I admire President Obama. He inherited the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

That was a terrible time for our country.

ANDERSON COOPER

We have to move on -

HILLARY CLINTON

9 million people lost their jobs. 5 million homes were lost and 13 trillion dollars in family wealth was wiped out. We are back on the right track. He would send us back into recession with his tax plans.

MARTHA RADDATZ

Secretary Clinton, we are moving to an audience question, we are almost out of time. We have another --

DONALD TRUMP

We have the slowest growth since 1929. Our country has the slowest growth and jobs are a disaster.

MARTHA RADDATZ

Mr. Trump, Secretary Clinton, we want to get to the audience. Thank you very much, both of you.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTHA RADDATZ

We have another audience question. Beth Miller has a question for both candidates.

BETH MILLER

Good evening. Perhaps the most important aspect of this election is the Supreme Court justice. What would you prioritize as the most important aspect of selecting a Supreme Court Justice?

MARTHA RADDATZ

We begin with your two minutes, Secretary Clinton.

HILLARY CLINTON

Thank you. Well, you’re right, this is one of the most important issues in this election. I want to appoint Supreme Court justices who understand the way the world really works, who have real-life experience, who have not just been in a big law firm and maybe clerked for a judge then gotten on the bench, but you know, maybe they tried some more cases, they actually understand what people are up against. 

Because I think the current court has gone in the wrong direction. And so I would want to see the Supreme Court reverse Citizens United. And get dark, unaccountable money out of our politics. Donald doesn’t agree with that. I would like the Supreme Court to understand that voting rights are still a big problem in many parts of our country. That we don’t always do everything we can to make it possible for people of color and older people and young people to be able to exercise their franchise. I want a Supreme Court that will stick with Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to choose, and I want a Supreme Court that will stick with marriage equality. Now Donald has put forth the names of some people that he would consider, and among the ones that he has suggested are people who would reverse Roe v. Wade and reverse marriage equality. I think that would be a terrible mistake and would take us backwards. I want a Supreme Court that doesn’t always side with corporate interests. I want a Supreme Court that understands because you’re wealthy and can give more money to something, doesn’t mean you have any more rights or should have more rights than anyone else. So I have very clear views about what I want to see to kind of change the balance on the Supreme Court.

And I regret deeply that the Senate hasn’t done its job. And they have not permitted a vote on the person that President Obama- a highly qualified person - they’ve not given him a vote to be able to have the full complement of nine Supreme Court justices.

I think that was a dereliction of duty. I hope that they will see their way to doing it, but if I am so fortunate enough as to be president I will immediately move to make sure that we fill that-

MARTHA RADDATZ

Thank you, Secretary Clinton, you’re out of time. Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP

Justice Scalia, great judge, died recently, and we have a vacancy. I am looking to appoint judges very much in the mold of Justice Scalia. I’m looking for judges, and I’ve actually picked 20 of them, so that people would see, highly respected, highly thought of and actually very beautifully reviewed by just about everybody.

But people that will respect the Constitution of the United States, and I think that this is so important. Also the Second Amendment which is totally under siege by people like Hillary Clinton. They’ll respect the Second Amendment and what it stands for and what it represents. So important to me. Now Hillary mentioned something about contributions. Just so you understand, so I will have, in my race, more than 100 million put in of my money. Meaning I’m not taking all of this big money from all of these different corporations like she’s doing. What I ask is this. I’m putting in more - by the time it is finished, I’ll have more than 100 million dollars invested. Pretty much self-funding mine, we’re raising money for the Republican party and we’re doing tremendously under small donations, $61 average or so.

I ask Hillary - why doesn’t she make $250 million by being in office? She used the power of her office to make a lot of money. 

Why isn’t she funding -- not for $100 million, but why don’t you put $10 or $20 or $25 or $30 million into your own campaign? It’s $30 million less for special interests that will tell you exactly what to do, and it would really, I think, be a nice sign to the American public. Why aren’t you putting some money in? You have a lot of it, you’ve made a lot of it because of the fact that you’ve been in office. You’ve made a lot while you were secretary of state, actually. So why aren’t you putting money into your own campaign, just curious.MARTHA RADDATZ: Thank you very much. We’re going to get on to one more question.

HILLARY CLINTON

But the question was about the Supreme Court and I just want to quickly say -

MARTHA RADDATZ

Very quickly.

HILLARY CLINTON

I respect the Second Amendment, but I believe there should be comprehensive background checks. And we should close the gun show loophole, and close the online loophole. And we have to try to save as many lives as we possibly can.  

MARTHA RADDATZ

We have one more question.

ANDERSON COOPER

We have one more question from Ken Bone about energy policy. Ken?

AUDIENCE MEMBER

What steps will your energy policy take to meet our energy needs while at the same time remaining environmentally friendly and minimizing job loss for fossil power plant workers?

DONALD TRUMP

Absolutely. I think it’s such a great question, because energy is under siege by the Obama administration. Under absolute siege. The EPA - the Environmental Protection Agency -  is killing these energy companies. And foreign companies are now coming in, buying so many of our different plants and then rejiggering the plant so they can take care of their oil. We are killing, absolutely killing our energy business in this country. 

Now I’m all for alternative forms of energy, including wind, including solar, etcetera. But we need much more than wind and solar. And you look at our miners.

Hillary Clinton wants to put all the miners out of business. There is a thing called clean coal.

Coal will last for a thousand years in this country. Now we have natural gas and so many other things because of technology. We have unbelievable - we have found over the last seven years, we have found tremendous wealth right under our feet, so good. Especially when you have 20 trillion in debt. I will bring our energy companies back. They’ll be able to compete. They’ll make money. They’ll pay off our national debt. They’ll pay off our tremendous budget deficits -- which are tremendous.

But we are putting our energy companies out of business. We have to bring back our workers. You take a look at what’s happening to steel, and the cost of steel. China dumping vast amounts of steel over the United States, which essentially is killing our steel workers and our steel companies.

We have to guard our energy companies. We have to make it possible - the EPA is so restrictive that they are putting our energy companies out of business. And all you have to do is go to a great place like West Virginia or places like Ohio, which is phenomenal, or places like Pennsylvania, and you see what they’re doing to the people, miners and others in the energy business, it’s a disgrace. It’s an absolute disgrace.

ANDERSON COOPER

You’re time is up. Thank you. Secretary Clinton - two minutes.

HILLARY CLINTON

Well, that was very interesting. First of all, China is illegally dumping steel in the United States, and Donald Trump is buying it to build his buildings. Putting steel workers and American steel plants out of business. That’s something that I fought against as a senator and I would have a trade prosecutor to make sure we don’t get taken advantage of by China on steel or anything else.

You know because it sounds like you’re in the business or you’re aware of people in the business. You know that we are now, for the first time ever, energy independent. We are not dependent upon the Middle East. But the Middle East still controls a lot of the prices. So the price of oil has been way down and that has had a damaging effect on a lot of the oil companies, right?

We are, however, producing a lot of natural gas which serves as a bridge to more renewable fuels. And I think that’s an important transition.

We’ve got to remain energy independent. It gives us much more power and freedom than to be worried about what goes on in the Middle East. We have enough worries over there without having to worrying about that.

So I have a comprehensive energy policy but it really does include fighting climate change because I think that is a serious problem. And I support moving to more clean and renewable energy as quickly as we can. Because I think we can be the 21st century clean energy superpower and create millions of new jobs and businesses. But I also want to be sure we don’t leave people behind. That’s why I’m the only candidate, from the very beginning of this campaign, who had a plan to help us revitalize coal country. Because those coal miners and their fathers and their grandfathers, they dug that coal out, a lot of them lost their lives, they were injured, but they turned the lights on and powered our factories. I don’t want to walk away from them. So we’ve got to do something for them.

But the price of coal is down worldwide. So we have to look at this comprehensively and that’s exactly what I have proposed. I hope you will go to HillaryClinton.com.

ANDERSON COOPER

Your time is up.

MARTHA RADDATZ

We’ve sneaked in one question, and it comes from Carl Becker.

CARL

Good evening. My question to both of you is regardless of the current rhetoric would either of you name one positive thing that you respect in one another?

(LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE)

MARTHA RADDATZ

Mr. Trump would you like to go first?

HILLARY CLINTON

Well I certainly will because I think that is a very fair and important question. Look, I respect his children. His children are incredibly able and devoted, and I think that says a lot about Donald. I don’t agree with nearly anything else he says or does. But I do respect that and I think that is something that as a mother and a grandmother is very important to me. I believe that this election has become in part so conflict-oriented, so intense. Because there’s a lot at stake. This is not an ordinary time, and this is not an ordinary election. We are going to be choosing a president who will set policy not just for four or eight years, but because of some of the important decisions we have to make here at home and in the world, from the Supreme Court to energy, and so much else, and so there is a lot at stake. It’s one of the most consequential elections we’ve had. And that’s why I’ve tried to put forth specific policies and plans, trying to get it off the personal and get it on to what I want to do as president. And that’s why I hope people will check on that for themselves, so they can see that yes, I’ve spent thirty years, actually maybe a little more, working to help kids and families, and I want to take that experience to the White House and do that every single day.

MARTHA RADDATZ

Mr. Trump?

DONALD TRUMP

10:36 PM

Well, I consider her statement about my children to be a very nice compliment. I don't know if it was meant to be a compliment, but it is. I am very proud of my children, and they’ve done a wonderful job, and they’ve been wonderful, wonderful kids. So I consider that a compliment. I will say this about Hillary. She doesn't quit. She doesn't give up. I respect that. I tell it like it is. She's a fighter. I disagree with much of what she's fighting for. I do disagree with her judgment in many cases. But she does fight hard, and she doesn’t quit. And she doesn't give up, and I consider that to be a very good trait.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:36 PM

Thanks to both of you.

(APPLAUSE)

ANDERSON COOPER

10:36 PM

I want to thank both the candidates. I want to thank the university here. This concludes the town hall meeting. Our thanks to the candidates, the commission, Washington University, and to everyone who watched.

MARTHA RADDATZ

10:37 PM

Please tune in October 19th for the final Presidential debate that will take place at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Good night everyone.